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Idea - DOF Setting on camera
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Mar 30, 2014 16:39:45   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
kruchoski wrote:
This is a rich topic (IMHO) because DOF is so important for turning 'ho-hum' photos into pretty decent photos. (There are a lot of those so-so pics posted here, which is another topic unto itself. Lest you start thinking I'm a snob for saying so, I'll confess I take lots of so-so pics, but at least I know they are. And 'bad' DOF is rarely the most egregious of my sins.)

Just last night I was researching the advances in using mobile devices (smartphones, tablets, iPads) to control DSLRs and add 'live view' capabilities to older (or lower-end) models. I'll be testing an Android app called (oh-so-imaginatively) DSLR Controller [ http://www.dslrcontroller.com -- imagine that! ] as soon as I get the special "OTG" USB cable or adapter to connect my Samsung Tab 3 to my Canon T2i and Xsi cameras.

I'm guessing that DSLR Controller could easily incorporate such a feature or mode. In fact, I might send a link to this topic to the good folks who are developing this app. It's a patentable concept.

(Primer on patentability: You must enumerate your claims, then describe how to make & use a new, useful, and non-obvious 'invention.')

Would I use it as a primary shooting mode? No. But if it were programmed as a 'hard stop' feature -- i.e., "never allow a shutter-aperture-ISO combination that violates the DOF constraints selected" -- I definitely would use it a lot.

Incidentally, the new patent law (since March 2013) is first-to-file, so if you can meet the requirements above, get thee to the USPTO mucho pronto.
This is a rich topic (IMHO) because DOF is i so i... (show quote)


Please pardon me while I hijack this thread momentarily:

Kruchoski, let me give you a quick heads up. I read what you said you plan to do with your Samsung Tablet 3 and wanted to briefly tell you my experience so as to possibly save you a headache. I've been using DSLR Controller for about 1.5 years now. Bought a Samsung Tab 2 7" for this purpose when ICS (Ice Cream Sandwich) was the current Android OS version and was then compatible with DSLR Controller for use on my 5D2. I rocked along about a year lovin' it and went to sleep one night with my "don't update my tablet" option unchecked and in the middle of the night Samsung came in and updated me to Jelly Bean and ruined my party. DSLR Controller will no longer work and now there is a comment saying it likely won't work. I emailed support and they didn't reply beyond saying go read the table of supported devices which I did. Where it wasn't before, there is now a comment in red saying "We get a lot of problem reports with these models." By your Tab 3 it says, "Compatibility unknown - please report back if you use this model, "which I take to mean the same thing as with the Tab 2. I called Samsung and was told, "tough, there's nothing we can do about it." Then was told that I cannot take my Tab 2 back to ICS so it's a paperweight now. I emailed DSLR Controller again and was told to contact Samsung or Canon.

Should you find your situation results in the same thing, there is a fix but even the fix wouldn't work with my Tab 2 but does with my Galaxy S3 phone. It involves a $35 TP-Link router that can be hacked to set up a wireless network. You hook the router to your camera with a usb cable regular/mini and then hook wirelessly with your Tab or phone. Chainfire, makers of DSLR Controller have a problem on their hands dealing with compatibility issues. There are also other alternatives. I don't know all of them but do know some. If you get hooked up and hit a wall, pm me. When it works, it's oh so sweeeeeeeeeeet! The wireless via TP-Link is especially sweet for macro, stacking, sitting your camera on a tripod and controlling everything but zoom from several feet away, maybe trained on a bird nest or where an elk herd graze, etc. There is a device called CamRanger that appears to be identical to the TP-Link that's $300 and worked only with Nikon cameras earlier and may still do so.

According to the "devices chart" it says you just need the Samsung adapter kit which is an adapter. I don't think you need the OTG cable but rather you just need the <$20.00 Samsung adapter which takes you from a male proprietary Samsung plug to a female standard usb plug where you connect the camera with the cord that came with the camera. Your Tab 3 has the following comment footnoted: "Compatibility unknown - please report back if you use this model." What they're saying there is that they haven't had any feedback from users so they don't know and they're wanting you to tell them if you get it to work or not. There's a good possibility that it won't work and if you try it and it doesn't they want you to inform them so they can mark it off as doubtful or incompatible, not that they will do anything about it.

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Mar 30, 2014 17:02:54   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
IR Jim wrote:
I was thinking how cool it would be to a DOF priority setting on a DSLR.
It would work on a single focus point and you could dial in how much DOF you desire behind the focus point. I'm a big fan of the metric system but it would also support imperial measurements. The camera would detect what lens you have and limit the DOF you could select. Shutter speed, aperture, and optional ISO would be automatic. The only major new hardware the camera would need to make it really efficient would be a new rangefinder system, perhaps and Eye-safe Laser Rangefinder (ELRF). I imagine it would be more accurate than current rangefinders that rely on trigonometric parallax, especially on shots with really shallow DOFs at lower F-stops.

Would any of you use a setting like this?
I was thinking how cool it would be to a DOF prior... (show quote)


I hope you'll please pardon me - I hijacked your thread briefly to reply to Kruchoski about his current project thinking that there may be others who might have an interest in the subject. As for your post, it would seem to me that you're aiming your comments at the wrong crowd. While it sounds like a marvelous suggestion and might be highly desirable to have the feature you suggest, you might better serve the photography community if you brought your idea up with the camera manufacturers. I'm almost certain they would offer you a useful comment or two about how easy that might be to achieve. I'm impressed, if that matters! I want auto-pilot so I can stay in bed and send my 5D2 up to Red Rocks Amphitheater to catch those gorgeous sunrises or maybe a programmable radio controlled drone. Please ask 'em about that while you have their attention. :thumbup:

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Mar 30, 2014 17:09:50   #
JPL
 
IR Jim wrote:
I was thinking how cool it would be to a DOF priority setting on a DSLR.
It would work on a single focus point and you could dial in how much DOF you desire behind the focus point. I'm a big fan of the metric system but it would also support imperial measurements. The camera would detect what lens you have and limit the DOF you could select. Shutter speed, aperture, and optional ISO would be automatic. The only major new hardware the camera would need to make it really efficient would be a new rangefinder system, perhaps and Eye-safe Laser Rangefinder (ELRF). I imagine it would be more accurate than current rangefinders that rely on trigonometric parallax, especially on shots with really shallow DOFs at lower F-stops.

Would any of you use a setting like this?
I was thinking how cool it would be to a DOF prior... (show quote)


DOF setting has been for a long time on dslr cameras. It is the Aperture setting we use to control DOF and it can be used as priority setting. So that is already in use. The laser system could be interesting and would be very accurate if it is possible to make it usable. I have used laser measuring equipment and laser plus ultrasonic measuring equipment for distance measuring up to 50 meters. Somehow laser metering seems to be limitied to shorter distances and also it is very difficult to use in daylight because you do not see where you are pointing the beam and there fore you would not see what you are focusing on. But if those obstacles can be removed then it would be very interesting because of the accuracy.

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Mar 30, 2014 17:12:42   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
Jim, some Canons actually have that.
It works only in the auto mode, and it may be part of the picture styles, can't remember. Since the camera knows where it's focused, it can slightly more blur the background. My 5dll has it. It doesn't do a huge amount, but it's there. ;-)
SS

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Mar 30, 2014 18:50:21   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
IR Jim wrote:
I was thinking how cool it would be to a DOF priority setting on a DSLR.
It would work on a single focus point and you could dial in how much DOF you desire behind the focus point. I'm a big fan of the metric system but it would also support imperial measurements. The camera would detect what lens you have and limit the DOF you could select. Shutter speed, aperture, and optional ISO would be automatic. The only major new hardware the camera would need to make it really efficient would be a new rangefinder system, perhaps and Eye-safe Laser Rangefinder (ELRF). I imagine it would be more accurate than current rangefinders that rely on trigonometric parallax, especially on shots with really shallow DOFs at lower F-stops.

Would any of you use a setting like this?
I was thinking how cool it would be to a DOF prior... (show quote)


I'd like a button to cause the lens to focus at the hyperfocal distance for the aperture I set. I could then read the distance off the lens and know I'd have everything in focus from half that distance to infinity.

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Mar 30, 2014 19:09:10   #
Michael66 Loc: Queens, New York
 
Peekayoh wrote:

All I'm saying is that I'd rather just have the distance displayed in the viewfinder rather than fiddling about dialling in a required amount.


Having the correct distance in the viewfinder would be awesome. I settle for being able to view the EXIF in live view on occasion.

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Mar 30, 2014 19:11:04   #
Michael66 Loc: Queens, New York
 
JPL wrote:
Somehow laser metering seems to be limitied to shorter distances and also it is very difficult to use in daylight because you do not see where you are pointing the beam and there fore you would not see what you are focusing on. But if those obstacles can be removed then it would be very interesting because of the accuracy.


That would be quite useful, especially if it was connected to the AF point.

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Mar 30, 2014 19:18:07   #
myblog11021 Loc: new york
 
in many cameras you can use dof preview button which works very good.

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Mar 30, 2014 20:44:11   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Back in my film days, with a 50mm f1.8 lens, I thought that the dof lever was just about the best thing available to help me in my composition. If I adjusted my aperture to achieve my desired dof, all I needed to do was also adjust my shutter speed accordingly.

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Mar 31, 2014 23:15:43   #
kruchoski Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 
gessman wrote:
Kruchoski, let me give you a quick heads up…. I rocked along about a year lovin' it and went to sleep one night with my "don't update my tablet" option unchecked and in the middle of the night Samsung came in and updated me to Jelly Bean and ruined my party.

Many thanks for your extensive feedback. So far, so good in my limited use of this app with my T2i. However, it seems almost worthless with my Xsi. I love the addition of ‘live view’ for my T2i. I assume I can use the app with both cameras as an inexpensive substitute for an intervalometer. Have you had any experience with that use?

I’m pretty vigilant about denying automatic updates from any vendor. Thanks for the reminder.

gessman wrote:
By your Tab 3 it says, "Compatibility unknown - please report back if you use this model, "which I take to mean the same thing as with the Tab 2... I emailed DSLR Controller again and was told to contact Samsung or Canon.

I do a lot of IT work. That kind of finger pointing is oh-so-common.

gessman wrote:
When it works, it's oh so sweeeeeeeeeeet! The wireless via TP-Link is especially sweet for macro, stacking, sitting your camera on a tripod and controlling everything but zoom from several feet away, maybe trained on a bird nest or where an elk herd graze, etc. There is a device called CamRanger that appears to be identical to the TP-Link that's $300 and worked only with Nikon cameras earlier and may still do so.

I’m still pondering whether to buy a wi-fi adapter. Right now the cable is sufficient.

gessman wrote:
I don't think you need the OTG cable but rather you just need the <$20.00 Samsung adapter which takes you from a male proprietary Samsung plug to a female standard usb plug where you connect the camera with the cord that came with the camera.

As best I can tell, they are ‘one & the same.’ I’d talked to a local computer cables store a month or so back; they carry the OTG for only $9.95. So far, it’s worked perfectly.

SteveR wrote:
Back in my film days, with a 50mm f1.8 lens, I thought that the dof lever was just about the best thing available to help me in my composition. If I adjusted my aperture to achieve my desired dof, all I needed to do was also adjust my shutter speed accordingly.

I smiled when I read your comment. Reminded me of the ‘good old days’ and made me rummage through the closet for my old gear. Yeah, I loved it.

myblog11021 wrote:
in many cameras you can use dof preview button which works very good.

I wish my experience had been the same, but I’ve been disappointed with the results. Like I said, I loved the preview feature back in the day.

JPL wrote:
DOF setting has been for a long time on dslr cameras. It is the Aperture setting we use to control DOF and it can be used as priority setting. So that is already in use.

Another smile: I almost always shoot in aperture priority, for exactly this reason. But I can see some situations where an AI-like capability would be helpful.

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Mar 31, 2014 23:37:32   #
CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver
 
Interesting idea - but worthless.

DOF is a mathematical construct. Something is not "in focus" between x and y distance, it is just vary degrees of out of focus.

Your idea of what is acceptable focus and my idea could well be very different. It will vary with the degree of enlargement of that image.

Just learn to be a photographer.

Would I use it? Hell no. I am a photographer.

Oh yeah - I will repeat the quote from Joel Grimes quote the Pale Pictures posted in another context (OK - maybe it is a paraphrase): "A technical device cannot make an artistic decision."

I hope I was clear. :-)

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Apr 1, 2014 10:47:35   #
IR Jim Loc: St. Louis
 
JPL wrote:
DOF setting has been for a long time on dslr cameras. It is the Aperture setting we use to control DOF and it can be used as priority setting. So that is already in use.

This is true but what I imagine is to quickly set a desired DoF by rotating a command dial. This would only be desirable to a photographer that wants a specific DoF without having to look it up on tables (cheat sheets) and measure the distance to the subject.

CaptainC wrote:
Interesting idea - but worthless.

Worthless to you but maybe not to others.

CaptainC wrote:
DOF is a mathematical construct. Something is not "in focus" between x and y distance, it is just vary degrees of out of focus.

Your idea of what is acceptable focus and my idea could well be very different. It will vary with the degree of enlargement of that image.

Most of us know what DoF and acceptable sharpness are but thanks for clarifying.

CaptainC wrote:
Just learn to be a photographer.

I think this thread pertains to you.
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-197811-1.html

CaptainC wrote:
Would I use it? Hell no. I am a photographer.

Now I'm certain this thread pertains to you.
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-197811-1.html

CaptainC wrote:
Oh yeah - I will repeat the quote from Joel Grimes quote the Pale Pictures posted in another context (OK - maybe it is a paraphrase): "A technical device cannot make an artistic decision."

I have a quote for you.

"If you do what you always did, you will get what you always got." ~Anonymous

CaptainC wrote:
I hope I was clear.

Quite clear.

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Apr 1, 2014 11:40:26   #
IR Jim Loc: St. Louis
 
I can handle criticism but I don't do well with condescension.

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Apr 1, 2014 11:40:33   #
CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver
 
Nice try - still a dumb idea.

Learn to be a photographer.

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Apr 1, 2014 12:25:01   #
CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver
 
IR Jim wrote:
I can handle criticism but I don't do well with condescension.


You should learn to tell when someone is playing with you.

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