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What our founding fathers thought about religion...
Mar 4, 2014 12:31:22   #
papayanirvana Loc: Kauai
 
“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”

“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual."

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”

JEFFERSON


“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

THOMAS PAYNE


"These are hardly the words of men who allegedly believed that America should be a Christian nation governed by the Bible as conservatives constantly claim. On the contrary, the great majority of the Founders believed strongly in separation of church and state. So keep in mind that this country has survived for over two centuries under the principle of separation and it is only now when conservatives are attempting to destroy that very cornerstone that we find America becoming ever more divided and more politically charged than ever before. If this right-wing faction has their way, America as we know it will cease to exist and the freedoms we have enjoyed because of the Constitution will erode.

The Founding Fathers had a vision of this nation and trusted that the people would protect that vision and improve upon it. Now is not the time to fail them. Because the day the people fail, so does America."

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/04/35-founding-father-quotes-conservative-christians-will-hate/

Reply
Mar 4, 2014 13:05:13   #
Jambulee Loc: San Antonio del Mar,Tijuana,Mex
 
papayanirvana wrote:
“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”

“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual."

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”

JEFFERSON


“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

THOMAS PAYNE


"These are hardly the words of men who allegedly believed that America should be a Christian nation governed by the Bible as conservatives constantly claim. On the contrary, the great majority of the Founders believed strongly in separation of church and state. So keep in mind that this country has survived for over two centuries under the principle of separation and it is only now when conservatives are attempting to destroy that very cornerstone that we find America becoming ever more divided and more politically charged than ever before. If this right-wing faction has their way, America as we know it will cease to exist and the freedoms we have enjoyed because of the Constitution will erode.

The Founding Fathers had a vision of this nation and trusted that the people would protect that vision and improve upon it. Now is not the time to fail them. Because the day the people fail, so does America."

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/04/35-founding-father-quotes-conservative-christians-will-hate/
“In every country and in every age, the priest has... (show quote)


Thanks for the link--well said. I think our founding fathers were onto something :shock:

Reply
Mar 4, 2014 13:08:43   #
larrypayne Loc: Texas Hill Country
 
papayanirvana wrote:
“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”

“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual."

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”

JEFFERSON


“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

THOMAS PAYNE


"These are hardly the words of men who allegedly believed that America should be a Christian nation governed by the Bible as conservatives constantly claim. On the contrary, the great majority of the Founders believed strongly in separation of church and state. So keep in mind that this country has survived for over two centuries under the principle of separation and it is only now when conservatives are attempting to destroy that very cornerstone that we find America becoming ever more divided and more politically charged than ever before. If this right-wing faction has their way, America as we know it will cease to exist and the freedoms we have enjoyed because of the Constitution will erode.

The Founding Fathers had a vision of this nation and trusted that the people would protect that vision and improve upon it. Now is not the time to fail them. Because the day the people fail, so does America."

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/04/35-founding-father-quotes-conservative-christians-will-hate/
“In every country and in every age, the priest has... (show quote)


Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine were Deists.

Deism is defined as: "The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation."

Observing what has gone on in the world since Biblical times, Their beliefs make a lot more sense than Christian beliefs.

Reply
 
 
Mar 4, 2014 13:28:20   #
papayanirvana Loc: Kauai
 
yea... I don't buy this Christian nation stuff...

(it's more of a tea-party re-write)

Reply
Mar 5, 2014 13:39:00   #
bvm Loc: Glendale, Arizona
 
papayanirvana wrote:
yea... I don't buy this Christian nation stuff...

(it's more of a tea-party re-write)


How about an Obamanation, do you think that would suit you ?

th

Reply
Mar 5, 2014 13:40:18   #
papayanirvana Loc: Kauai
 
bvm wrote:
How about an Obamanation, do you think that would suit you ?

th


I'm talking about the BS that we were founded as a Christian nation. 80% of colonists did not attend church.


but I'm not that into Obama, either and don't really under stand your question beyond the obvious pun.

Reply
Mar 6, 2014 08:44:26   #
Penny MG Loc: Fresno, Texas
 
papayanirvana wrote:
I'm talking about the BS that we were founded as a Christian nation. 80% of colonists did not attend church.


but I'm not that into Obama, either and don't really under stand your question beyond the obvious pun.


80%? I doubt that seriously.

Reply
 
 
Mar 6, 2014 09:54:50   #
larrypayne Loc: Texas Hill Country
 
Penny MG wrote:
80%? I doubt that seriously.


The fact that the Constitution does not mention God or Christianity backs up the 80% figure.

Reply
Mar 6, 2014 10:42:28   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
papayanirvana wrote:
“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”

“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual."

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”

JEFFERSON


“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

THOMAS PAYNE


"These are hardly the words of men who allegedly believed that America should be a Christian nation governed by the Bible as conservatives constantly claim. On the contrary, the great majority of the Founders believed strongly in separation of church and state. So keep in mind that this country has survived for over two centuries under the principle of separation and it is only now when conservatives are attempting to destroy that very cornerstone that we find America becoming ever more divided and more politically charged than ever before. If this right-wing faction has their way, America as we know it will cease to exist and the freedoms we have enjoyed because of the Constitution will erode.

The Founding Fathers had a vision of this nation and trusted that the people would protect that vision and improve upon it. Now is not the time to fail them. Because the day the people fail, so does America."

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/04/35-founding-father-quotes-conservative-christians-will-hate/
“In every country and in every age, the priest has... (show quote)

Sounds great...until you actually delve into history and find out that taking a few quotes out of context doesn't actually tell the story :(

Reply
Mar 6, 2014 10:45:44   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
papayanirvana wrote:
I'm talking about the BS that we were founded as a Christian nation. 80% of colonists did not attend church.


but I'm not that into Obama, either and don't really under stand your question beyond the obvious pun.


Too bad you are dead wrong.

According to "Religion and the Founding of the American Republic: Religion in Eighteenth-Century America"

from the Library of Congress:

Quote:
Figures on church attendance and church formation support these opinions. Between 1700 and 1740, an estimated 75 to 80 percent of the population attended churches, which were being built at a headlong pace.

Reply
Mar 6, 2014 12:55:52   #
papayanirvana Loc: Kauai
 
Penny MG wrote:
80%? I doubt that seriously.



upon further research.... I would have to agree with you. Forbes has an good article which explores the issues neutrally.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2012/09/25/was-america-founded-as-a-christian-nation/

SUMMARY:

"America wasn’t founded as a Christian nation and many of our beloved Forefathers sadly were not, yet America was largely comprised of Believers. Liberty allows us to worship freely or not at all per conscience. America was never meant to be theocratic or homogenous religiously, but Christianity has always been indelible to our social fabric.

The Founders, even non-Believers, considered that a blessing."

Reply
 
 
Mar 6, 2014 13:13:36   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
papayanirvana wrote:
upon further research.... I would have to agree with you. Forbes has an good article which explores the issues neutrally.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2012/09/25/was-america-founded-as-a-christian-nation/

SUMMARY:

"America wasn’t founded as a Christian nation and many of our beloved Forefathers sadly were not, yet America was largely comprised of Believers. Liberty allows us to worship freely or not at all per conscience. America was never meant to be theocratic or homogenous religiously, but Christianity has always been indelible to our social fabric.

The Founders, even non-Believers, considered that a blessing."
upon further research.... I would have to agree wi... (show quote)


Lol..I wouldn't call Forbes a hotbed of historical research...

Not sure what they mean by "many" but clearly (for example) the overwhelming majority were.

I could provide some quotes from these gentleman but don't want to clutter things up too much...but here is a short list from the signers of the D of I

Samuel Adams

Charles Carroll

William Cushing

John Dickinson

John Hancock

Patrick Henry

Daniel St. Thomas Jenifer

Henry Knox

John Langdon

John Morton

Robert Treat Paine

Charles Cotesworth Pinckney

Rufus Putnam

Benjamin Rush

Richard Stockton

Jonathan Trumbull Sr.

John Witherspoon

-----------------------

All founding fathers...all either signed the D of I or the Constitution and this is a very very short list.


Quoting Wallbuilders:

Quote:
Were the Founding Fathers Christians?
It can be easily demonstrated that a very high percentage – in fact, the overwhelming majority – of Founding Fathers were Christians, but certainly not all of them were.

Today, citizens are regularly told about the lesser religious Founders (such as Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and Thomas Paine), but hear nothing about the prominent Christians among the Founders (for example, 29 of the 56 signers of the Declaration held what are today considered seminary or Bible school degrees, and many others of the signers were bold and outspoken in their personal Christian faith).

Significantly, not one of the Founding Fathers was secular in his orientation; even Thomas Paine (certainly the least religious of the Founders) openly acknowledged God and announced his belief in his personal accountability to God, and he also directly advocated teaching creationism in the public school classroom (see “Thomas Paine Criticizes the Current Public School Science Curriculum”).

Over 250 individuals are historically considered Founding Fathers (e.g., the signers of the Declaration, the signers of the Constitution, the framers of the Bill of Rights, leading state governors and generals in the Revolution, etc.), but typically critics list only the handful of the least religious from among the 250 to claim that all the Founders were deists or secular.
b Were the Founding Fathers Christians? /b br It... (show quote)

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