Trabor

I have D800 and Nikon 28-300 G
The camera is way better than the lens for bird pics
Which would be a better upgrade
70/200 F4 with 1.4:1 extender (effectively 280mm) or the new 80/400G

They both have about the same equivalent aperture F 5.6 at max zoom

the 70/200 has a DXO rating of 21Mpix which I suppose would be degraded some by use of the extender

while the 80/400 has a rating of 14Mpix but this spreads its pixels over 1/2 the area field of view of view (280/400 squared) for an apples to apples rating comparison of 28 to 21 pixels per bird of a given size

Lugability/hand holding ability and anti shake capability assumed to be equivilent, but the 80/400 is a bit pricier even with todays rebate

Any thoughts?

amehta Loc: Boston

I'll throw out the same thought I did in another topic. An AF-S 300mm f/2.8 (non-VR) is also a bit pricey, maybe a little more than the 80-400mm, but those primes are pretty amazing. I have two sets of pictures with the 300mm f/2.8 VR I, one model newer but optically similar: http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-176105-1.html , http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-172326-1.html . I always put it on a monopod. Comparing the DxOMark review to the 70-200mm f/4, it's slightly sharper (24 vs 21, though the 21), a stop faster, and 1.5x longer.

Maximum aperture affects the light which gets to the AF sensor if it's low light, so that affects AF speed.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

300mm f4 with an extender.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Just get a prime lens.

amehta Loc: Boston

:thumbup: :thumbup:

mcveed Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia (between trips)

With the 70-200 f4 you can use a 1.7TC for a max of 340mm before you lose autofocus. With going to DX mode you get the illusion of having 510mm. With the 80-400 you can't use teleconverters at all so you are limited to 400mm, or 600mm in DX mode. Most pundits recommend 500mm as a minimum for bird photography. Most books on bird photography that provide shooting data will show 500mm with 1.4, 1.7 or even 2.0 tele extenders. Once you jump into the bird photography ring you have a lot of decisions to make. Some of the decisions will be easier if you use your 28-300 at max range and do some bird shooting in the locale and situation that you see using your upgrade kit. Try enlarging some of your 300mm shots to the equivalent of 400, 500, 600mm etc. See what kind of enlargement you want. Then start saving or applying for a loan. I just bit the bullet and ordered a Nikon 300 f2.8 and all three TCs. That will get me out to 600mm with a rig that is hand holdable and portable enough to use on a monopod. The next stage, I imagine, will be to go for the 500mm or 600 f4 and resign myself to life behind a tripod.

Mark7829 Loc: Calfornia

WRONG - I have the 80-400 VR and a 1.4 TC on a Nikon D800E I have autofocus throughout the focal range which is now 560 mm. At 560 mm you are at f/8.0. I get sharp pcitures. You can hand hold this baby (at least for a while). The 80-400 is an excellent lens.

Jerry Green Loc: Huntsville, AL

Nikon teleconverters (1.4x & 1.7x) work well with the new 80-400 mm VR on my D3S, D800E and D7100. I did perform auto focus fine tune with the lens and the lens plus teleconverters on all three cameras and highly recommend it. With the 2x III the cameras would search for AF in low light so I will use the Nikon 600mm VR when I need longer reach.

Mark7829 Loc: Calfornia

There is IQ degradation of about 26% with a 2.0 TC III, only 5% with a 1.4 as so documented online study.

Trabor

Thanks for all the insights from the group
I suspect the 300 MM 2.8 prime w extender while ideal might be a bit to lug around
Regarding the "rule of thumb" of 500 mm needed for birds, I suspect that this rule dates from a previous era of fewer pixels (or film equivalent parameter) and less sharp lenses
So for my case where I typically crop my pics in computer a lot, the goodness factor ends up being (focal length) X (effective resolution in Mpix) Thanks DXO
So with my D800 I have more pixels than I can use except for the few lenses on Nikons recommended list (prime lenses and the 70-200 F4, but at least the camera will not limit the overall performance
Low light operation is not a critical factor except as it affects shake and noise both of which affect "effective resolution" so ultimately it is a trade off between lugability and available light
In the above "crop factor" in the camera or by the lens is irrelevant except as it affects file size- hard drives arecheap

The new 80-400 G is looking good

amehta Loc: Boston

Good summary and conclusion. :thumbup:

TGanner Loc: Haines, Alaska

I agonized for two years before buying the 500mm f/4 to go with the D800. Have not regretted making the leap once. (Of course, then you get to agonize over the tripod and gimbal!!)

mcveed Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia (between trips)

You must have the new version and they must have changed the lens. I have the older version and you can't put ant TC on it without damaging both of them.

joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois

Given the choice between the 70-200 and the 80-400 for birding its a no brainer in my opinion. The latter will be much more useful.

Tiny Tim Loc: Forest of the Pacific Northwest

Okay, now I'm probably going to show my ignorance. Why hasn't anyone suggested the new Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6/3?