Manual Flash vs TTL: I watched this short 6 minute video this morning. This man seems to make a pretty good case for using the off camera flash in manual. Thoughts? Is manual flash for...

Nightski

I watched this short 6 minute video this morning. This man seems to make a pretty good case for using the off camera flash in manual. Thoughts?

Is manual flash for experienced photographers?
When is TTL useful?
What is the most important thing you need to know about using manual flash? TTL flash?

All Wisdom is Welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3e6xnrWSnng

Wall-E Loc: Phoenix, AZ

Nightski wrote:

I watched this short 6 minute video this morning. This man seems to make a pretty good case for using the off camera flash in manual. Thoughts?

Is manual flash for experienced photographers?
When is TTL useful?
What is the most important thing you need to know about using manual flash? TTL flash?

All Wisdom is Welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3e6xnrWSnng

1) Learning manual flash MAKES you an experienced photographer!

2) When you're NOT experienced.

3)Flash exposure depends almost exclusively on the f stop. Where the ambient light is affected more by the shutter speed. Set the flash output and aperture to get the desired depth of field and flash exposure, then set the shutter speed to control the ambient.

Nightski

Wall-E wrote:

1) Learning manual flash MAKES you an experienced photographer!

2) When you're NOT experienced.

3)Flash exposure depends almost exclusively on the f stop. Where the ambient light is affected more by the shutter speed. Set the flash output and aperture to get the desired depth of field and flash exposure, then set the shutter speed to control the ambient.

Wall-E, how do you get to be an experienced photographer if you use your flash in TTL? :-D I'm not trying to be sassy.

amehta Loc: Boston

Nightski wrote:

I watched this short 6 minute video this morning. This man seems to make a pretty good case for using the off camera flash in manual. Thoughts?

Is manual flash for experienced photographers?
When is TTL useful?
What is the most important thing you need to know about using manual flash? TTL flash?

All Wisdom is Welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3e6xnrWSnng

TTL works very well, at least with the Nikon creative lighting system. I can position the flashes where I want, and set the level on each one, or on a group of them, and the exposures generally work out very well. I still have to think about how the subject will be exposed, and the results I get from different set-ups, which I think is most important overall.

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

I do both manual and TTL.If the situation allows time to meter the flash so I can get the 30-40% flash to ambient, I do it.

If we are moving around and shooting in changing environments, I will probably go to TTL.

I do NOT buy the argument that TTL is for inexperienced shooters. TTL, is wonderful as long as you understand its occasional weird behavior! When you understand how the camera flash-metering logic works, TTL is a fantastic tool.

If using manual flash, you have to re-meter every time the flash-to-subject distance changes (or shoot/chimp/shoot/chimp). With TTL, it does that on its own. My goal is to get great images and whatever tool works is what I use.

There is no either/or here. Both work.

NIghtki asked what you need to know. Well....more than can be placed in a forum answer. :-) There is no substitute for experience. Go shoot both until you understand what is happening and why. Lots of tutorials on the net. Joe Brady does some of the best.

amehta Loc: Boston

Nightski wrote:

Wall-E, how do you get to be an experienced photographer if you use your flash in TTL? :-D I'm not trying to be sassy.

I'd say you get experienced by learning what the effect is with different orientations between the camera, subject, and flashes. Your main line is from the camera to the subject, but the subject can turn at different angles to that line. The flash light is also coming from different angles to that line, including up or down. There are infinite variations, so finding a few basic angles which have known effects that you like is the goal.

amehta Loc: Boston

Wall-E wrote:

3)Flash exposure depends almost exclusively on the f stop. Where the ambient light is affected more by the shutter speed. Set the flash output and aperture to get the desired depth of field and flash exposure, then set the shutter speed to control the ambient.

Ambient exposure depends on ISO, f-stop, and shutter speed.

Flash exposure depends on ISO, f-stop, flash power, and flash-to-subject distance, but not shutter speed.

When you are trying to balance (or "unbalance" ) the ambient and flash output, the ISO and f-stop help you control the overall exposure, while the shutter speed, flash power, and flash-to-subject distance are used to adjust the balance.

Nightski

amehta wrote:

I'd say you get experienced by learning what the effect is with different orientations between the camera, subject, and flashes. Your main line is from the camera to the subject, but the subject can turn at different angles to that line. The flash light is also coming from different angles to that line, including up or down. There are infinite variations, so finding a few basic angles which have known effects that you like is the goal.

I haven't found those yet.

I have learned that 1/1 is very bright and it eats up your batteries pretty quickly.

I've learned that the distance from subject to flash makes a big difference in the power that is needed.

I haven't come up with a formula yet for distance to subject concerning the flash. ( How far for 1/1, 1/2, 1/4 etc) But I suppose that is also dependent on how much ambient light there is, and how much ambient light you are allowing in with the aperture.

It just seems like there is a whole table of variables, and I was surprised that the man in the video didn't talk about having to know all those variables when using your flash in manual.

Nightski

CaptainC wrote:

I do both manual and TTL.If the situation allows t... (show quote)

When you say meter, do you mean you meter with a metering device like the sekonic light meter? I don't have one. Maybe I should stick with TTL until I do?

Joe Brady . thanks CaptainC . you can bet I'll watch that!

amehta Loc: Boston

Nightski wrote:

I haven't found those yet. br br I have learned t... (show quote)

The flash guide number is the key to the distance between the flash and the subject.

Let's work in a dark setting, so the ambient light is not a factor. And let's say your flash guide number is specified as "60 (ft, ISO 100)". This tells you the following: if you shoot at ISO 100, divide 60 by the distance to the subject in feet, and that will give you the correct f-stop to use. If the flash is 15' away, use f/4. If the flash is 10', use f/6.3. It does not matter if the flash is on the camera or not, it's the distance from the flash to the subject that matters.

If you then use ISO 400, the distance doubles. It's one of those things where it takes 2 stops to double, not just 1.

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

I often use an older, non-TTL flash unit on my DSLR. Usually I do a test shot, review the result, then estimate the exposure adjustment and take another shot with the correction. With experience, you can develop a feel for how much adjustment is needed - most of the time the exposure in my second shot is just where I want it to be. But obviously there are situations when you simply don't have time to do a test; then TTL is the way to go.

mdorn Loc: Portland, OR

Nightski wrote:

I watched this short 6 minute video this morning. This man seems to make a pretty good case for using the off camera flash in manual. Thoughts?

Is manual flash for experienced photographers?
When is TTL useful?
What is the most important thing you need to know about using manual flash? TTL flash?

All Wisdom is Welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3e6xnrWSnng

Nightski, thanks for sharing this link, and the info is good, but the presenter doesn't make listening to him very easy.

Although there is a lot of other good info in this book, it was written with the Canon Speedlites in mind. I found this book to have a lot of good information as well, and the author won't put you to sleep. If anyone is interested, here is the title:

Speedliter's Handbook by Syl Arena

Nightski

mdorn wrote:

Nightski, thanks for sharing this link, and the info is good, but the presenter doesn't make listening to him very easy.

Although there is a lot of other good info in this book, it was written with the Canon Speedlites in mind. I found this book to have a lot of good information as well, and the author won't put you to sleep. If anyone is interested, here is the title:

Speedliter's Handbook by Syl Arena

I have that book. :oops: I forgot. I got it from Rpavich.

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

Nightski wrote:

When you say meter, do you mean you meter with a metering device like the sekonic light meter? I don't have one. Maybe I should stick with TTL until I do?

Joe Brady . thanks CaptainC . you can bet I'll watch that!

You do not NEED a light meter, it just makes things more accurate and faster.

However once you get good at it and understand the inverse square law, you can make pretty accurate changes by eye. Incredibly handy is converting f/stops into feet. If you found that your exposure was f/8 with the flash at five and a half feet (5.6), you will need f/5.6 with the flash at 8 feet, f/4.0 with the flash at 11 feet and going the other way, f/11 with the flash at four feet.

Every time you increase the distance by a multiple of 1.4, you reduce the light by half.

IF that does not make sense, read up on the inverse square law.

Wall-E Loc: Phoenix, AZ

Nightski wrote:

Wall-E, how do you get to be an experienced photographer if you use your flash in TTL? :-D I'm not trying to be sassy.

Sorry, I was being a little facetious.

I'm with the Captain. I do both manual *and* TTL.
Off camera, mostly manual. I will do an extension cable to my speedlites when I'm doing cocktail party/grip 'n grin events.
SB800 on a monopod with the hotshoe extension cable.
On-camera, mostly TTL, 'cuz I'm looking for the fast shot.
And with my studio and Lumedyne portable strobes, there is no TTL available.
I bought a VERY inexpensive Interfit flash exposure meter.
B&H has it for $48.50. I bought mine on eBay for about $30.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/264040-REG/Interfit_INT410_Flash_Meter.html
Really cheap construction. But, it's good to within a 1/2 stop.