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When does it make sense to buy super expensive lenses?
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Jan 12, 2014 09:57:06   #
sshinn1 Loc: Phoenix
 
lovitlots wrote:
That statement is wrong. Skill produces better results. I used watch people marvel at watching how well my dad used to make mitred corners in woodworking with a hand plane when they couldn't achieve those results with a mitre saw. He had the skill and when he did use a mitre saw he could get the same results. The only advantage to the mitre saw was he could do it faster, but not better. The same hold true with any discipline including photography. Oh, btw, those mitre joints where flawless. No gaps and on angle.
That statement is wrong. Skill produces better res... (show quote)


Better lenses are all about gathering more light and being sharper. Sounds like your dad had a lot of skill, but how good would those corners turn out done with a dull plane in the dark?

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Jan 12, 2014 09:59:08   #
dali_lama_2k Loc: Norfolk
 
joer wrote:
Following this logic we should all be driving low end vehicles just capable of doing the speed limit.

Its a hobby. Buy what makes you happy even though it may not make you good. Life is short.


What I meant by that was this: why buy a macro lens if you don't like macro? Why get 300mm lens when all you want is a walk-around? Spending a lot of money on something that's just going to collect dust is silly.

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Jan 12, 2014 10:00:14   #
crissx09 Loc: FL-USA
 
lovitlots wrote:
That statement is wrong. Skill produces better results. I used watch people marvel at watching how well my dad used to make mitred corners in woodworking with a hand plane when they couldn't achieve those results with a mitre saw. He had the skill and when he did use a mitre saw he could get the same results. The only advantage to the mitre saw was he could do it faster, but not better. The same hold true with any discipline including photography. Oh, btw, those mitre joints where flawless. No gaps and on angle.
That statement is wrong. Skill produces better res... (show quote)

Better equipment produce better results? Half true.
Skills produce better results? Half true also.
You can't produce good material if you are unskilled and by the same token you can't overcame poor technical quality in a lens just with your skills. So buy the best you can within your budget, make some money and upgrade if needed later on.

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Jan 12, 2014 10:27:32   #
dthurk Loc: Upstate NY
 
I am a professional performing musician and have spent a lifetime teaching others to play. I have always recommended that students, even beginners, buy the best instrument they can afford. Lower end instruments make the learning process more difficult because they are more difficult to play and you have to overcome the limitations of the instrument to achieve anything, even in the beginning stages. The same would be true in photography. You are in a creative element from the beginning. Overcoming equipment limitations affects the creative element. Buy the best equipment you can afford.

Photo-Jeff wrote:
I have a friend who wants to be a great guitar player. He just bought a $2000 acoustic guitar but he still doesn't play well.

I suggested he become so good with the equipment he has that he needs something that only a $2k guitar can do for him to make him better.

Is that not the case with photo equipment as well?

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Jan 12, 2014 10:33:33   #
Dds82
 
I see great photos from very ordinary cameras. For example, composition ,framing, layering , finding good natural light etc... Has nothing to do with cost of camera. I would recommend a cheap point and shot camera to see if you even enjoy it. If you do then you move up gradually. If you don't you haven't spent a lot of money.

I was on "automatic" mode for years with a point and shoot before I entered the professional L series lenses. I never used the camera properly and better do it with a cheaper camera. No regrets!

Louis from Canada

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Jan 12, 2014 10:46:09   #
lovitlots Loc: Tottenham, Ontario, Canada
 
sshinn1 wrote:
Better lenses are all about gathering more light and being sharper. Sounds like your dad had a lot of skill, but how good would those corners turn out done with a dull plane in the dark?

First off we don't work in the dark except for special jobs. Secondly it was his skill that allowed him to sharpen and set up his own planes. So for more light we have apertures and shutter speeds and flash and light bulbs and reflectors. Skill will teach you how to use them. There are plenty of smaller aperture lenses that just as sharp if not sharper than the fast lenses. The speed of the lens has nothing to do with making a lens sharp but the difficulties in making a fast lens sharp has a ton to do with the cost of it. So to make a long story short, skill makes a photographer better and more versatile and allows him/her make the best of a small budget.

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Jan 12, 2014 10:57:38   #
sshinn1 Loc: Phoenix
 
lovitlots wrote:
First off we don't work in the dark except for special jobs. Secondly it was his skill that allowed him to sharpen and set up his own planes. So for more light we have apertures and shutter speeds and flash and light bulbs and reflectors. Skill will teach you how to use them. There are plenty of smaller aperture lenses that just as sharp if not sharper than the fast lenses. The speed of the lens has nothing to do with making a lens sharp but the difficulties in making a fast lens sharp has a ton to do with the cost of it. So to make a long story short, skill makes a photographer better and more versatile and allows him/her make the best of a small budget.
First off we don't work in the dark except for spe... (show quote)


I agree with a lot of what you say, great pictures are primarily about the skill of the photographer, but to say equipment doesn't help isn't true. We have apertures - but a bigger aperture will cost you. We have shutter speeds and flashes - but lower end cameras often have limitations on shutter speed, such as no faster than 1/4000 or limits on how long you can use bulb (or no bulb setting), and are you saying the on board flash your camera came with does all you need? There are certainly some very sharp inexpensive lenses out there, Nikons 18-55 kit lens comes to mind, and if you only shoot relatively near subjects in good light you may not need better lenses... but if you want the ability to get the best results in any conditions, it's gonna cost you.

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Jan 12, 2014 11:09:28   #
Joecosentino Loc: Whitesboro, New York
 
Photo-Jeff wrote:
I have a friend who wants to be a great guitar player. He just bought a $2000 acoustic guitar but he still doesn't play well.

I suggested he become so good with the equipment he has that he needs something that only a $2k guitar can do for him to make him better.

Is that not the case with photo equipment as well?


Less CA
less distortion
Better color reproduction
Better low light performance
The lens should last for a long time
Buy once and not 2 or three lenses leading up to good glass
Usually faster and more accurate auto focus
Better VR in some lenses.

Just a few reasons, you still need to have or develop the eye to get the shot.

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Jan 12, 2014 11:42:23   #
lovitlots Loc: Tottenham, Ontario, Canada
 
sshinn1 wrote:
I agree with a lot of what you say, great pictures are primarily about the skill of the photographer, but to say equipment doesn't help isn't true. We have apertures - but a bigger aperture will cost you. We have shutter speeds and flashes - but lower end cameras often have limitations on shutter speed, such as no faster than 1/4000 or limits on how long you can use bulb (or no bulb setting), and are you saying the on board flash your camera came with does all you need? There are certainly some very sharp inexpensive lenses out there, Nikons 18-55 kit lens comes to mind, and if you only shoot relatively near subjects in good light you may not need better lenses... but if you want the ability to get the best results in any conditions, it's gonna cost you.
I agree with a lot of what you say, great pictures... (show quote)

I didn't say anything like that. I said if you buy wisely and find a good lens that is slower the pictures you will produce will be just as good as the super duper fast lens. You may have to work a little harder and think a little when your using it but it doesn't mean you'll get inferior results. Most people on this site use zoom lenses fast and slow. But everyone here knows that a prime lens is best if you're looking for the best results. It's just not as versatile. So people give up a little of one to achieve the other. The bottom line is you can do a lot with a little if you learn what to do and when to do it. Yes higher end lenses give you more ease of use but if it costs an arm and leg and all you have is the one arm and a leg you won't get out of the house to use it much. Get the best lens you can afford and learn photography. Then some day when you can afford that super duper lens you'll get far superior results from it due to the skills and knowledge you learned with that so called inferior lens. Heck, you'll probably be able to do more with it because you learned so much with your first lens. When this person goes to buy a lens my advice is research thoroughly and buy wisely to get the best bang for the dollar he/she can afford. You'll never go wrong with this approach.

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Jan 12, 2014 11:43:53   #
ottopj Loc: Annapolis, MD USA
 
I've never regretted spending top dollar for anything, unless I didn't use it.

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Jan 12, 2014 12:22:19   #
Dave Johnson Loc: Grand Rapids, Michigan
 
ottopj wrote:
I've never regretted spending top dollar for anything, unless I didn't use it.


That's how I see it too. In my experience I've gotten a lot of pleasure using "the good stuff." I never have to wonder if my equipment can keep up with me. Also, when it comes to guitars, $2000 will buy you a fine instrument though it's by no means the top of the line.

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Jan 12, 2014 12:24:13   #
amehta Loc: Boston
 
I believe the photographer, camera, and lens should be of comparable quality for the most effective results. If any one is sub-par, it should be upgraded to match the others.

If you use better equipment than your abilities, the results will usually be better than using lesser equipment. And, if the person cares, the better equipment can often motivate them to improve their skills, while the old equipment let them become complacent. There is an exception to this, however: since the better equipment is designed to be used by someone who knows what they are doing, there may not be as much "hand-holding", and they probably won't set things up right.

For example, if someone is shooting their child's high school soccer game with a Nikon D3200 and 55-300mm lens, they can set it to the little "athlete" icon and they will probably get some good shots. Now take the lens off and put a 300mm f/2.8 on it. Since they're not used to the weight, they'll have trouble maneuvering it. Give them a monopod, and they'll have to get used to swiveling on a new balance point. And they'll have trouble following the play through the lens with it's limited field of view. So if their kid is in the state championships, and you switch lenses on them telling them it's so much better, they'll thank you by hitting you over the head with it. If, instead, you switch their lenses at the beginning of the season, and they practice using it and get some tips, at the end of the season they'll tell you the other parents kept asking to get prints made from their shots.

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Jan 12, 2014 12:29:25   #
Johnny boy Loc: COCOA FL
 
wait I think the Mrines get what the army and navy disgard and make damm good use of it. Thats what if looked liek when I was in.
Johnny boy

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Jan 12, 2014 12:32:14   #
Bruce with a Canon Loc: Islip
 
Photo-Jeff wrote:
I have a friend who wants to be a great guitar player. He just bought a $2000 acoustic guitar but he still doesn't play well.

I suggested he become so good with the equipment he has that he needs something that only a $2k guitar can do for him to make him better.

Is that not the case with photo equipment as well?




Buying an expensive camera makes you an expensive camera owner.

I can make my Mexican Strat sound just so good.
I can't make Clapton's Strat sound like Clapton.

While having good equipment is essential, over buying does not improve photography, it simply adds flexibility to the photographer.

Learning to use all the bells and whistles is a subject un to its self.
When young I loved to drag race. I built a 15 sec car, learned to drive it, then I built that to run 13's, then 11's.
Then I bought a REAL drag car an learned to drive 10's, then 9's then 8's.

Going from 15's to 8's would have been deadly
Buying a Hasselblad and not knowing the exposure triangle will provide snap shot quality images at best

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Jan 12, 2014 12:37:24   #
Edmund Dworakowski
 
If money is the issue, ALWAYS go for the Best glass and a Good camera, but always remember that it is the photographer's skill and imagination that makes a Great Image. I too am a lousey guitar player, even with my '56 Stratocaster, but Eric Clapton wil always make beautiful music even with a cigar box and fishing line for strings.
Buy the best glass that you can afford and practice and refine your skills.

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