LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

The photo was not the Sistine Chapel; it was of St Peter's Basilica. I personally feel anyone who snaps photos in the Vatican is disrespectful and should have their gear confiscated. Yes people do it-- but that doesn't make it right. Eventually they will not allow anyone inside with a camera or with a cell phone-- because disrespectful individuals continue to ignore signs and the warnings. And, no I'm not Catholic.

Michael O' Loc: Midwest right now

Yes, they post "no photographs" notices, I suppose to prevent commercial shots for resale by others. But they don't actively "police" against shooting, so one can "sneak" a few nice shots of this magnificent Cathedral -- for personal use, as here. Outside (as of the Pope giving a blessing from a high window) is not contested. Incidentally, an interesting fact : Rome has the catacombs, which are an intriguing and thought provoking visit, but has 400 Churches and Cathedrals, the difference being that a Church cannot be classified as a Cathedral unless posted by (I believe) at least a Bishop. I'm not a Catolisher, so could be wrong on the minimum rank for classification as a Cathedral. Fascinating city, but watch out for the clever pick-pockets -- and in the rest of Italy, and all of North Africa. They are clever and more often than not work in pairs, so you'll be running one way after a watch pulled from your arm by the young perpetrator while your watch has been passed to a waiting comrade around the corner who quietly goes in the direction you came from. They're good at what they do.
Michael O'

Roger Hicks Loc: Aquitaine

Why would I go to a landscape workshop, and why would I care what others say? And I've never stitched a landscape in my life. Long lenses ARE the lens of choice for me in landscape, and for quite a few others: this topic came up on Rangefinder Forum a few months back, and I was far from alone in preferring longer lenses.

To those who are happy with wide-angles for landscapes, I wish the very best of luck. But I'd also encourage people to think about when they've shot their best landscapes, and whether these have invariably (or even often) been shot with wide-angles. I own a wide range of lenses, from 15mm to 600mm (on full frame) and with few exceptions, my favourites have been shot with 50-135mm. Yes, I've shot a few good ones with wide-angles (including 90mm on 6x17 cm) but if I'm picking up a lens for landscape, it is rarely going to be a wide-angle.

This doesn't mean that I'm right and everyone else is wrong, not least because it's not 'everyone else': a lot of the best good landscape photographers do, in fact, use long lenses. Look at Yoshikazu Shirakawa's 'Eternal America' (fisheye to 800mm on 6x7 cm), or for that matter, check the technical details on Ansel Adams's landscapes. For AA you'll find a LOT of pictures taken with lenses two or three times the 'standard' focal length, and very few taken with wide-angles; even then, not extreme wide-angles. Of course you can point to many excellent landscapes taken with wide-angles: all I'm saying is that wide angles are not necessarily the best choice for everyone.

To summarize, therefore, I'd say that although among the participants at a landscape workshop, " Everyone else will have a wide angle mounted on the camera body for a reason," it's not necessarily a good reason.

Cheers,

R.

Michael O' Loc: Midwest right now

Beautiful shot of a magnificent Cathedral. Not a big deal but, as I recall, St Peters is next to but technically not a part of Vatican City, which keeps Swiss Guards posted 24 hours a day, and an admission is charged. Surprisingly the Church does not charge for entry into St. Peters. The "arms around" shape of the walls from the entryway toward St. Peters is large enough to hold thousands and thousands, and often does when the Pope is scheduled to appear and bless those down in that area below him from an upper window and mini balcony.
Thank you for sharing.
Michael O'

Adirondack Hiker Loc: Southern Adirondacks

I use a Nikon with a 1.5 crop factor, so my 12 mm is effectively 18 mm. BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, the hyperfocal distance is based on the 12 mm, so I gain about 2 feet of foreground focusing. This is major in my work. Landscape photography is all about the foreground drawing you into the image.

Michael O' Loc: Midwest right now

Dear stumpjumper. I believe St Peters is next to but not a part of Vatican City. And as probable proof that what the "Church" wants is no COMMERCIAL photo sales of its magnificent Cathedral. They have had signs posted since at least after the Second World War, but do not actively police against the odd visitor's personal shot. If they were worried about that they would put an absolute stop to ANY photographing inside it. It seems reasonable to believe (I don't "feel", I try to think) that it is posted so that if commercial use was made of an interior shot they could, and would, sue immediately, if not sooner.
The Catholic Church is much about money, as evidenced also by the heaps and heaps of priceless and countless items displayed in the very large "treasury room" just to the left of the mid Cathedral transept with apse viewed in the subject shot. Most of its treasures are stored away.
I believe it to be one of, if not the wealthiest, organization in the world.
I, too, am not a Catolisher, for whatever meaning that has. Okay, I'll play nicely if you will. Truce with Ahanonymous and P. Nagy and I ?
Michael O'

Roger Hicks Loc: Aquitaine

Not for everyone. Yes, if that's the way you like to shoot. But not everyone shoots the same way. Again, I adduce Ansel Adams.

Cheers,

R.

Michael O' Loc: Midwest right now

Adirondack Hiker and Roger Dodger, you old codger. We are allowed to clown around are we not ? Roger, you are correct in discussing why you use telephotes and don't go much for pulling in a near base to anchor the photo. Of course, Hiker is correct in regard to the fact that he likes to include foreground. That is tough to do with a telephoto. A good wide angle is just the thing for that, as you are well aware. So all this reproves is that we are a bunch of individuals, each having his or her own methods, objectives, and quirks. That surely is what "makes
the world go around" as they say it. What is especially good about this forum is that we can exchange and thus pick up new viewpoints from one another. Live and let live ? No, live and help learn ! It's great isn't it ?
I don't personally like artificial light (natural lighting is one of my quirks)
and I have done almost every other kind of photo work, sometimes for money, sometimes just for pleasure or as a gift. Tho I have run photo labs, sold, and taught photography photo and lab classes, but have never taken a photo "class." So I'm self-taught, which must mean that I have a lot to learn yet. So for these reasons, I enjoy this forum. What was it they used to say : cooperate and graduate ? Now my motto is "shoot, enjoy, teach, and learn. All my best to "all y'all" for the coming year.
Michael O'

Roger Hicks Loc: Aquitaine

Dear Michael,

I could not agree more! As I said, nothing I say means that I'm right and Adirondack Hiker is wrong -- which, to me, is enormously important, because I grow weary of people saying that this IS the ONLY way to do it. Occasionally, technically, there IS only one way to do it (don't put the fixer in before the developer, take off the lens cap), but mostly, it's a matter of personal taste and style -- and of not being intimidated by what 'everyone knows'.

That's why, like you, I've never taken a class, let alone a workshop. I can learn the technical stuff from books and the web, and how to take pictures by looking at others' shots and by shooting lots of pictures myself.

Cheers,

R.

Michael O' Loc: Midwest right now

Grumpy Stevens, that is a beautiful seascape under rising sun you have under your signature.
Michael O'

Michael O' Loc: Midwest right now

Well, a kindred spirit. What do you know ! I considered going to a week-long workshop out in Colorado some time back, but didn't get pulled in. If I have the time and money, I might go one day. I used to go to the Olympic Training Center at the "Springs" for the US Soccer Federation instructor training, but it would be nice to go out there just to shoot. Oh, and I just read somewhere the other day that the shot of one's life was probably the one you took with the lens cap on. And I did have a lab helper mess up a brand new large batch of developer once by poring it into a container he thought was developer but was stopper. You brought back some crazy memories.
All the best to you and yours for 2012 ! Be talkin' to you one of these days no doubt, probably thru this forum.
Michael O'

BigBear Loc: Northern CT

Michael O.,
If you're interested in a real workshop, check out:

http://www.gerlachnaturephoto.com/index.html

My wife and I went to their Michigan workshop in August.
It was the greatest time spent on learning our own equipment.
It's run by a couple, one who is a Canon Explorer of Light guru and his wife who is a Nikon guru. When they take you out they don't take their own gear. They take you with your own gear and show you how to use it to the max capability.
If you have any questions please ask away.

ahanonymous Loc: Queens, NY

I pay strict attention to "No Photography Allowed Signs". The only reason you cannot photograph the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is because the Japanese company that restored the ceiling had the Vatican put into the contract that the ONLY company that IS ALLOWED photograph the ceiling is the Japanese companies photographers. Before that you could photograph there. But as far as I can remember that was the only photography restriction I encountered.

Another Vatican shot is below.

Vatican visitor

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

I was there in 2010 and the "guards" were constantly pushing down the raised cameras and cellphones. Sorry, but I cannot accept this "rules are for everyone else mentality" that seems to pervade these days. I encountered the same behaviour when viewing the crown jewels in England. Gives photographers a bad name. They're acting like paparazzis (sp?). Apologize for getting off topic-- but I feel that it is very important for people to police their own behaviour. End of rant... steps off soap box....

sirlensalot Loc: Arizona

I like the perspective Mooseyes is sharing. I ditto using more primes in the 24-35mm range.
Adding to looking into a Rokinon, I have the 85mm f/1.4 and would consider a wider angle of the same brand in the future based on the performance of this lens.
Repeating, it is all manual, but I would think it would be great for landscapes on a tripod.