Huey Driver Loc: Texas

Liberals explain their views on guns through animation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84ptFVq22PY&feature=player_embedded#t=10

Heaven help us form their thinking!

stonecherub Loc: Tucson, AZ

You REALLY believe this is the way "liberals" think? We're lost! We can't have a country this way.

Black Bart Loc: Indiana

This will work better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84ptFVq22PY&feature=player_embedded#t=10

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Have you been following the gun control debate on UHH? Stay around and you will hear some on this tread. If you want too, do a search above on gun control and see what you get.

stonecherub Loc: Tucson, AZ

No, thanks, I think I'll pass. I visit what I regard to be the Klan rally section of UHH because I don't personally know anybody who hates as much as some of the folks who post here. They know nothing about me and hate me violently because I'm a liberal. Liberals exist to be hated. It's OK, at least we're good for something.

There was a story in the Times this morning about the savaging of Dick Metcalf who used to write for Guns & Ammo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/05/business/media/banished-for-questioning-the-gospel-of-guns.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20140105&_r=0

This thing has gone well beyond "gun control" to to the zero-sum idea that because you have a right to own a gun granted by the Constitution I have no rights at all. "All men are created equal but a man with a gun is far more equal than anybody else."

And we really can't talk about this because we have different meanings for common words. 2700 hours in P2Vs left my hearing a bit mangled and I can't understand people who are yelling at me.

BigBear Loc: Northern CT

Instead of actually working on problems, they make up new laws and figure they will solve the worlds problems and totally ignore the fact that criminals don't care about the ones they break. Those laws only penalize by infringing on the rights of those who obey them. The criminals use the laws to their benefit knowing where it is safest for them to commit their crimes. They will not go to a place where it's likely that an armed bystander will take them out. This is the logic that liberals either don't have or the power they have is too great for them to control.

Government is never the solution because it is the biggest part of the problem.

Huey Driver Loc: Texas

Let me qualify a couple things. First I don't hate you as I don't know you. Being a liberal doesn't qualify you to be hated by all conservatives as you apparently wish to believe. Being a liberal most conservatives certainly think your beliefs that more gun laws and control are going to make America a safer place to live is absurd. Any intelligent individual who can think for himself surely realizes that if the government ask everyone to turn in their guns today the dope dealers, gang bangers, mentally deranged, etc. would not do it. Then we would have a bunch of law abiding good people that don't have the means to defend themselves against the ones who didn't obey the law. Try going up against a gun caring thug using a ball bat. You lose. Somehow something seems wrong with that scenario and that's why most of us believe owning a gun is not just a 2nd amendment right it's a necessity in today's society. Just read the paper and watch the news. A properly armed and trained citizen is a safer citizen for himself, his family and everyone around him/her.

stonecherub Loc: Tucson, AZ

Huey:

<<First I don't hate you as I don't know you.>>

Fair enough but you DO know me, or you claim to know what I think.

You said, <<Being a liberal most conservatives certainly think your beliefs that more gun laws and control are going to make America a safer place to live is absurd.>>

I don't think these things and to say that I do is <<absurd.>> The straw flying out of the man you set up makes me want to sneeze.

My problem with guns is that something we've always had around has become an object of worship. Reasonable laws that had been on the books for years (don't bring a gun to a bar) were repealed and it seemed to me the repeal was a message to me and my ilk, "You have no right to be safe from a man with a gun."

This started in 2008. There was something about that year that brought out the guns in flagrant public display.

Buy any gun you want, fondle it, polish it, keep it in a safe so the guy who robs your house while you're not home doesn't get it. But please don't figuratively stick it into my face with the unmistakeable message, "I'm GOD and you're garbage."

The gun has become an object of worship, a holy thing that we can no longer discuss. That's why Dick Metcalf was banished. Being a good liberal, widely read, I am uneasy with major social changes that nobody understands this year being the hundredth anniversary of "The guns of August." (That nobody understands, still)

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

stonecherub, it is apparent that you don't give a damn about yourself... if you did, you would not be crying, no body loves me because I am a Liberal. No body cares if you are a liberal - how do you feel about me being a Conservative? Get over it.

If you have an opinion about guns then let's hear it, don't pout about it, like we are being nasty to you, we have a gun and you don't. So what? If you don't want a gun then that is your right. Me owning a gun is my right. Why should that upset you? I own a car and I have a camera besides a pistol. I take good care of all three. It is not worship of these things, just common sense to care for them.

Of course we feel very strongly about our rights to own guns. And when the government talks about restricting those right, we become very upset. I am not talking about the gun itself but about my right to own and to carry my gun. Can you understand that? It is not the gun but my Rights to carry a gun.

If you want to be liked and make friends then try to be reasonable and not just attack people because their views are different than yours. I won't infringe on your rights, don't infringe on mine.

Best wishes for the New Year.

mdfenton

Anti-gun folks read thoroughly:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/guns-arm-citizen-crime/2014/01/04/id/545187?ns_mail_uid=19984395&ns_mail_job=1552083_01042014&promo_code=161F2-1

http://www.newsmax.com/US/concealed-weapons-murder-rates/2014/01/02/id/544949

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

BigBear Loc: Northern CT

Their mind is already made up and don't want to be confused by actually learning what the facts are. So they will keep adopting the liberal views and opinions as their own.

OviedoPhotos

To make it worse I know conservatives who hate guns, but they don't want guns outlawed. I also know liberals who own guns and they hunt. So the confusion will be with us for a long time.

We also now have our communications monitored.

My take on this is that the 2A was written to prevent a tyrannical gov't from being able to take hold. Sadly since president #16 tyranny has been with us. The books, The South was Right and Lincoln's Marxist, give us the truth. Sad that our nation has been fooled for so long by so few.

We need to replace most of the current 545 with those that love liberty.

Schwabbie28 Loc: Crested Butte, Colorado

I suspect that you and I share views on guns. I certainly do not consider myself a "liberal", but a moderate. Or, the orginal "reasonable man". Best - John

stonecherub Loc: Tucson, AZ

I apologize, guys, time constraints force me to be a lurker from now on - not even that, I'm going into the field.

I am gratified and chagrined that this thread has not become the hate-fest I expected and is not even more than one page by this time.

I'm really not that bothered by guns (physical objects) as I am by attitudes and beliefs. My reality is different from that of the men with guns. Many are absolutely convinced the "they" (yes, the "them" they) are going to "take our guns away." Admittedly I have not studied this in detail but I don't see any evidence in objective reality (the reality built entirely on evidence) for this conviction.

There is evidence in psychology for free-floating fear and for magical thinking. (To cite a superb example, Bernie Madoff is back in the news today.) I was very disturbed by the story of Dick Metcalf because it was really a story about power politics based on magical thinking.

This has been an interesting and gratifyingly civilized discussion but I have to get ready to hit the road tomorrow.

rhitmrb Loc: Portland, OR

Did you just call Lincoln a Marxist?

This is the Klan rally subforum, indeed.