Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Ethical vs. Artistic Dilemna
Page <<first <prev 3 of 5 next> last>>
Dec 14, 2013 09:20:57   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
nokin wrote:
I agree with you. I would have taken the same decision probably...
except sometimes, I take the photo, show it to the person on the photo and if he or she agree, I ask to him or her their e-mail to send to them the photo to thank them. At the same time, I ask to them to sign to be able to use the photo at a contest or as promotion. Almost every time they sign and they really enjoy the souvenir brought by the photo. Usually the contact with the person can be emotional for us too.
If they don't want me to use the photo, I erase the photo, simply. Usually, I don't ask before taking the photo, because it change all the emotional effect of the moment.
I agree with you. I would have taken the same deci... (show quote)


Common sense dictates when to take the shot, in the situation Rocco was in there was absolutely no alternative.
He handled it properly.

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 09:25:05   #
joehel2 Loc: Cherry Hill, NJ
 
I would have done the same thing you did but considering how moved you were by the emotion of the scene, could your photo haved moved 50 or 5000 people the same way?

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 09:27:14   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
amehta wrote:
Well, to use your gun analogy, I'd say that pulling out a gun and aiming it at a completely innocent person is also a bad action. Similarly, just taking the picture is an invasion of privacy, even if you don't use it later. Again, street photography is different. It appears that this was in a somewhat private venue.


I can't see why guns should have any play in this discussion, Rocco made no mentionof one. The WWII museum is a public venue in New Orleans. The gentleman in the wheelchair was experiencing a private moment upon leaving. I would say he earned his privacy.

Reply
 
 
Dec 14, 2013 09:29:46   #
Callihan
 
Sometimes words are worth more than any picture.

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 09:29:54   #
Callihan
 
Sometimes words are worth more than any picture.

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 09:32:12   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
joehel2 wrote:
I would have done the same thing you did but considering how moved you were by the emotion of the scene, could your photo haved moved 50 or 5000 people the same way?


Joe, I think it is a moot point.
Ones personal grief, pain, misery, loss is not something to be shared among 50 or 5000 or even 5 people especially in the form of a covert picture.

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 09:35:54   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
Bobbee wrote:
they were in a public place.


Public in the sense of a city owned building only, but it requires the payment of a fee to enter and see the presentation. Therefore becoming a private event only by payment. Being city owned property, no guns are permitted.

Reply
 
 
Dec 14, 2013 09:46:27   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
Bobbee wrote:
Was the museum open to the public? Was there signs posted no photography? If the museum did not allow photographers they would not have let the author in with his camera. As an example I was not allowed in the MMA museum with my camera. I had to lock it up in a keyed storage locker. So the fact that this person was standing there, in a lobby inhabited by public people with his camera around their neck might go to show that policy is not in effect here. If it was, that has not come out, it is just conjecture at this point, it is still an open public area and all is fair game. Sorry you don't like it, but things are what they are. PS, take the shot. :-)
Was the museum open to the public? Was there signs... (show quote)


Take the shot and be damned for being a cruel obnoxious individual that would intrude on a veterans private moments of obvious grief. There are times when common sense if expected to prevail.

Unknowingly, he could possibly have recognized a family member or a close personal friend in the film presentation.

I've personally seen it several times, the first time brought tears to my eyes. Watching the film brought back memories of several conversations I had in the past with my Father, a veteran of D Day. To actually see some of the reality of what we had discussed ripped into the depth of my heart. Bodies covering a beach, boatloads of troops gone in the blinding blink of an eye.

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 09:49:12   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
Hey Rocco, I didn't intend to hijack your post, it's just that there are times when a response is necessary, I found this to be one of those times.

The next time your down this way the cold one is on me!

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 09:49:33   #
ebbote Loc: Hockley, Texas
 
Rocco, you did the right thing, not many like you around.

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 10:35:22   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
You correctly identified the act of photography as intrusive, and followed your judgment of the moment. I applaud you.
rocco_7155 wrote:
So here's the scenario I was faced with a month ago. We had just left the interactive presentation "No Boundaries" at the WWII/D-Day Museum in New Orleans. It is a hugely emotion producing 90 minutes which involves the audience in the sounds, sights, and realities of WWII. The crowd was exiting into the lobby. I turned, camera in hand and ready to see an aged vet, in a wheelchair, sobbing uncontrollably. His similar aged wife and at least 2 other generations of family standing around him trying to console him. I raised my camera, and before I could press the shutter, I was overcome with the feeling that I was truly intruding, and that shooting would be somehow disrespectful. I simply walked over and tearfully said " Thank you, sir" and we left the area. I know that I did what was right for me at the moment, but the question has bothered me since. What would you have done? Thanks for any and all comments.
So here's the scenario I was faced with a month ag... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Dec 14, 2013 10:48:42   #
billgdyoung Loc: Big Bear City, CA
 
I’ve wrestled with your question for the last hour. In your heart, I’m sure you did the right thing…

I think I would have taken the picture, but I wouldn’t have stood right in front of him and his family with flash ablaze. After taking the picture, I would have waited till I thought the instant emotion had settled a little, then approached the man and family and respectively asked them if I could show them the image… if they said no, I would apologize for the intrusion, and delete the image. If they wanted to see the image, I would have shown it to them and offered to send them a print of the image… and told them that I had no intention of capitalizing on the picture. If that had been MY dad in the wheelchair, I would want the picture… I’m sure the family wouldn’t forget the reason for the tears, but I’m also pretty sure they didn’t break out a camera to record the dad’s emotion either. That instant in the family history could have lived forever and been something that their next generations could see. By the way, I’m one of those vets from Viet Nam who can’t even think about the Wall without dropping a tear or two. On the other hand, I applaud you for what you didn’t do… make any sense?

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 11:32:18   #
charles brown Loc: Tennesse
 
Rocco:

I think that you made the right decision. You received many thoughtful responses and even those who said take the picture made valid arguments for their point of view. To expand on this discussion, I think the wi fi capability of the new generation of cameras will eventually cause many so called public spaces to examine if not change their policies governing the taking of photographs. And most likely the issue will end up in the federal courts.

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 12:07:13   #
d2b2 Loc: Catonsville, Maryland, USA
 
Rocco,thank you for doing the respectful thing. Although, on the other hand, I probably would not have faulted you for doing otherwise, because although it was a privately, emotional event, you were apparently not being physically intrusive. I will admit I find myself to be incredibly angry at a reporter who sticks a microphone in the face of someone who has just had a memember of their family murdered, and asks, "How do you feel?" Yours was a much more difficult question to answer, particularly in the instantaneous manner in which you had to make that decision.

Reply
Dec 14, 2013 12:47:41   #
amehta Loc: Boston
 
UP-2-IT wrote:
amehta wrote:
Bobbee wrote:
amehta wrote:
Bobbee wrote:
Think back to that picture of the little Viet girl running down the dirt road with no clothes on. Probably at the time, through the frame, that, did not stike the photographer as an Ethical picture. It went on to become one of the most artistic pictures of the Vietnam war. Who knows, beauty, as we all say, is in the eye of the beholder. You may have had a pultzer winner. We are there to capture, not judge.


We are always supposed to judge our own actions.

Your example raises a good caveat. If I was hired by the organizers of the event to shoot it, then I would take the picture. Otherwise, though, I would not.
quote=Bobbee Think back to that picture of the li... (show quote)


I would certainly think that would drive the 'use' of the picture. Certainly no the click of the shutter. FYI, I would have taken the shot, then decide. I have taken many shots that later on thought twice of. But to not take the shot does not offer up the situation where you could possibly judge yourself. It is not buying a gun that makes you bad, it is when you use that gun to kill people. lets get some separation here.
quote=amehta quote=Bobbee Think back to that pic... (show quote)


Well, to use your gun analogy, I'd say that pulling out a gun and aiming it at a completely innocent person is also a bad action. Similarly, just taking the picture is an invasion of privacy, even if you don't use it later. Again, street photography is different. It appears that this was in a somewhat private venue.
quote=Bobbee quote=amehta quote=Bobbee Think ba... (show quote)


I can't see why guns should have any play in this discussion, Rocco made no mentionof one. The WWII museum is a public venue in New Orleans. The gentleman in the wheelchair was experiencing a private moment upon leaving. I would say he earned his privacy.
quote=amehta quote=Bobbee quote=amehta quote=B... (show quote)


Just to be clear, I wasn't the one who introduce guns in the conversation. And I was having a discussion with Bobbee where I would NOT have taken the picture.

The forum keeps things cleaner by not automatically pasting the entire thread in any reply, but sometimes it makes it difficult to follow what transpired. :-/

Reply
Page <<first <prev 3 of 5 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.