English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-16184773

"The statue? I guess you could call it a Christmas present. At this time of year it's easy to forget the true meaning of Christianity - the lies, the corruption, the abuse."


mmmmmfr :shock: I am not sure what to answer to that. I am not a Christmas person as I stated several times. I am also a devout (if I may use such a word) enemy of the roman church but christian beliefs ie Christianity is not about lies, corruption and abuse, THAT is the domain of all organized religions, not part of any belief unless you are a complete a***.

Still, I think this link can create some interesting thoughts. :mrgreen:

rocco_7155 Loc: Connecticut/Louisiana

Thanks English Wolf... isnt the "purpose" of art after all, to stir thought and emotion?! As someone who was raised Roman Cathiolic, studied world religions, and dabbled in a few...the hypocrisy stands out. Christians berating Muslims for "brutality" and "violence" when The Crusades were Jihad in reverse. Antisemitism was based on the fact that Jews worshipped one God and ALL other religions worshipped many (yes, even early Christians)
(OK, let the tirades begin....but first read your history folks!)

johnr9999 Loc: Carlton, OR

Rocco,
I have read the histories (early church fathers, Bible, etc.)
dating from 70ad to 500ad and find no evidence of early Christians practicing polytheism. Please do not cite the Godhead as polytheism. That has been long refuted and not worth repeating here. One thing to remember about the Crusades is that they were an effort to take back lands the Muslims had conquered and subjugated. While they (the Crusades) were outside of Christian concepts, they have been falsely typified as a campaign of destruction on Muslims and have been used by some Muslims for terrible depradations. What is Jihad in reverse, raising people from the dead?

jdtx Loc: SA, Tx.

The Crusades..needless to say were a long time ago and I am not aware of any Christian practices now that even come close to anything like a "jihad"..which of course is ongoing even as we speak.

English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

johnr9999 & jdtx & others Let me mention attack on abortion clinic, even murder because of the right to chose?

How about attack against condom distributed to prevent AIDS but refused int name of 'morality: it encourages promiscuity'?

Murder is not necessarily with a machete. How about forced sterilization? Taking kids from parents because 'pagan' all those things are of actuality so. please do not defend ANY religion.

As to the crusades being a long time ago, I wonder how you consider the forced conversions in Africa less than a century ago? Convert of off with your head.
Yes, we christian have been an example over the centuries and still are.

The crusades were a tool to re-establish control on the nobility. At the time many were questioning the 'teaching of the church' and legitimacy of 'god chosen kings' It was not about faith, it was about control. Same as today when a government points the finger at a head of state, call it evil, lie about things that will scare a population and then go to war with millions of folks clamoring for death. When did I see that recently? Oh! In the US, war in Iraq, remember? All lies, changing justifications. Result death and mayhem all over.

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As to the on going "jihad", you need to understand what "jihad" is, in the Koran. This is not what the population believe it is. What we are misled to believe is a lie. True "jihad" is a fight against one self to be better, it is not about war and killing infidels. That is what extremists and the media want us to think. That way, it is easier to kill. Once again, define the guy next door as evil and start shooting w/o discrimination.

Yes, in the Koran there is a mention of 'total war'. This mention interestingly is about defense, not attack, which once again contradicts everything we are told. Since the masses are REALLY stupid they drink the misinformation and lie like milk and honey from heaven.

Put some thinking cap on will you?

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The worse is we love to point fingers and accuse. This is easy to accuse allows us refuse to do our own mea-cupla. The day we take responsibility for what WE did (under the name of a god who did not ask us to kill in his name) is the day pigs will fly and christian too.

What legacies do we have from our religions? Look at that and then come back with
something that makes some sense.

Defend the right to believe if you please. There you can never be wrong, as long as you recognize that not one human believe the same way or even in the same thing.

Take responsibility for your own life and stop screwing with other folks lives

Now your answer made angry.

That was supposed to be a fun thread about art and provocation to think, not to show such narrow minded mean spirited exchange. Are you the same folks who are going to shake each other hands in the next few days in the 'spirit of Christmas'? Look at yourself now.

SpeedyWilson Loc: Upstate South Carolina

I have just another random thought ... probably not based on any sound theology.

The pixellation effect could be used as a symbol of how Jesus' sacrifice removes our sins from His memory.

"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." Hebrews 8:11

English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

Actually, I did!!!

:shock: :mrgreen: :evil: :D :D :D

I even howled at the moon! (That was in despair, I was stuck and did not know how to come down :mrgreen: )

johnr9999 Loc: Carlton, OR

Geez, Engish Wolf, I can almost see the foam flying from your mouth. I don't recall decapitations in Africa for not converting. Can you cite your sources. All of the things you as being the sins of Christianity (the war in Iraq?) are sins of religion. These are not the same thing. Most of the sins are completely contrary to the teachings of Jesus. Please do not mix these in together. As for the Koran, there are many verses that state that you gain paradise if you kill an infidel. As for defense, in the 800's Muslim forces invaded as far as Hungary. This is hardly defense. Taking responsiblity for what we did? Thats just silly. I refuse to accept guilt for what happened 150 years ago or 1000 years ago. If you are indeed English, do you take responsibility for English attempts at genocide on the Irish (battle of the Boyne), Scots (Culloden), Welsh, Indians and Africans? And no, these were not Christian inspired efforts. They were inspired by the likes of Henry VIII, et al.

English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

Read again. War in Irak: US, not religion. Argument: Make the other look like evil doers and you gain support for war. Where is religion? Evil doer? get a freaking life.
Exact quote, just for you since you have difficulties reading:
Same as today when a government points the finger at a head of state, call it evil, lie about things that will scare a population and then go to war with millions of folks clamoring for death. When did I see that recently? Oh! In the US, war in Iraq, remember? All lies, changing justifications. Result death and mayhem all over.
Decapitation in Africa? Read your history, google it, whatever.
You refuse the history of the roman church yet use it to accuse Islam. Do I smell double standard?
Taking responsibility for what we do, not what our ancestor or father did.
I am specific, once again, a re-post since you do not know how to read:
Take responsibility for your own life and stop screwing with other folks lives
Your 'teaching of Jesus', as you want his name here, seems to be what you want them to be, not what they are.
Take the time to read the koran. Until then do not bother me with your rather simplistic religious argumentation.
You seem to have no idea what beliefs are nor do you know what respect of others beliefs is.

With folks like you, no wonder everyone reject Christianity as a whole.
No wonder that peace on earth is a farce.

The Jesus you invoke so freely told us that much. 'I am not here to create union'

johnr9999 Loc: Carlton, OR

I think this needs to be curtailed. The rabid hate you have for Christianity is a double standard. Would you have the guts to do this with any other belief? Try it with Islam and learn what the meaning of a fatwah is. Further discussion on this matter is non-productive. You switch between governments to religions to Christianity. I have seen other posts by you and they have the same anger inherent in them. No more to be said.

English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

You really are something, aren't you?

You have no idea what being a christian is about yet you persist in this stupidity. That is your life, not mine. Take your responsibility with your 'savior' as you have not understood one word of what he told you.

One of the primary thing is that WE are all individually responsible for our choices. A lesson you should take to heart because it opens so many doors. But then again, for you Christianity is all about posturing, not about living, so, my friend, posture like peacock, let's see where this will take you.

I had long conversations with an Imam and this man, (in the middle east by the way) told me it was too bad I was on the wrong side of the road because, for him (as for you), I was lost to god, except he called god Allah. He despised the idea because he felt that while challenging I was a man of peace (surprised the s*** out of me when he said that).

Me? I do not call god anything but a comedian and I have my reasons for that.

God asks everyone of us something, it is up to us to answer. Your answer is an obvious WHAT? WHAT did you say? Uh? I don't understand. It is your responsibility, not mine. Have a nice life and please, the next time you read, pay attention to the first post.

Another quote from me, here that should have tipped you off:
Christianity is not about lies, corruption and abuse, THAT is the domain of all organized religions, not part of any belief unless you are a complete a***.

So back to your bible studies. I would like to see what you make of those, that owes to be interesting.

Once again, this was supposed to be a fun thread about the artist who is a provocateur, not a heavy ridiculous dialogue of blind folks.

So, in a few days, go ahead, be a hypocrite and shake everyone's hands in church knowing that 30 years from now you will killing your Jesus. Maybe that day, you will understand what Christ means and how responsible you are, as I am, for his death.

Oh, and to drive you insane, did not the ***** who was president at the time tell the nation that he prayed to god to make sure he made the right decision? :mrgreen:

johnr9999 Loc: Carlton, OR

Shhhh. Now go away and peace be with you. Try to get past your bigotry and you will be happier.

English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

Bigotry? oh man, talk about not understanding anything.

The more you type the more you sink.

Carioca

:!:

johnr9999 Loc: Carlton, OR

ESL