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Copyright Question
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Dec 10, 2011 11:33:59   #
Roger Hicks Loc: Aquitaine
 
bbreslow518 wrote:
I stand corrected on your first point. The copyright on a photograph exists from the moment the film has been developed because at that moment it is in tangible form. Each print, over time will still retain the original copyright.

As to your point about the sculpture, the US Copyright Office says, "If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part
of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the
created work as of that date." Now I am no lawyer, so I will bow to your legal knowledge, but I interpret that statement to mean if I am creating a sculpture, once I have begun, the copyright is established.

Checked out your website too, love the images and the content. I know longer shoot anything in film, but have enjoyed what I've read so far.
I stand corrected on your first point. The copyrig... (show quote)


Thanks for the kind words about the web-site. Quite a lot of it is 'platform neutral' on film/digi, with stuff like the Arles reviews, 'Colour for Colour's Sake' or even (God help us all) 'Bokeh'. There are even a few digi reviews there (M8, M8.2, M9) to say nothing of lenses used on digi. But 45 years shooting, almost 40 of them exclusively with film, leaves its mark...

Yes, I am sure you are right that as soon as the statue is begun, copyright is established. The intriguing question is whether it is renewed as the sculpture progresses, and on my reading (and I am sure yours too), it is. At that point, of course, it is always open to the sculptor to say, "I sold it before it was finished..."

Typical moot stuff in a law school. Of curse, if I were feeling REALLY legalistic, I'd suggest that an unexposed film is still tangible, and that as the image can be viewed with the aid of a device or machine (a developing tank or minilab) that the latent image is copyright too. With the print, one might then use (c) 1977, 2011, for the negative and print. All fun stuff.

Cheers,

R.

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Dec 10, 2011 11:47:20   #
ltruex Loc: Waco TX
 
KeithF199, I noticed you're from West Texas is that geographical or from the City of "West Texas" just a few miles north of Waco Texas? Kind regards. Larry

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Dec 10, 2011 12:33:51   #
PhotoArtsLA Loc: Boynton Beach
 
Well, having won a copyright suit which took 2 years of my time (full time,) I am rather expert on USC Title 17 these days.

Basically, what you shoot, is your copyright. However, if you do not make it official, as in, send in the image(s) and payment to the Copyright Office....

If someone, say, because of newsworthy timeliness, takes an image you shot, like a mass produced headshot not bearing your copyright, and hands it over to the Associated Press and United Press International, the result of which is your photo being seen by everyone, in every country, in every form, print and digital: you have no recourse. Way back when (a time before the Internet,) this happened to me concerning a shot I did of Donna Rice when Gary Hart was killing his political career. The story broke, and her agent gave the shot away. Bingo, my image, everywhere on earth, overnight. Oh well...

Having cemented in stone your copyright with the government (which was at least stamped on the back of the photo,) and you get a minimum of $100,000, with a few issues, like, does the violator have deep pockets?

Best practices are to EDIT your images, and simply copyright those with real value. Much of what we shoot has not much real value.

Finally, copyright litigation, or mediation (more common) involves the balance of access and similarity. In the old days, there were physical things called transparencies and prints, and there was no Internet. It was a more slam dunk world. Today, we post all our stuff online. At 72 dpi, and with lossy JPEG, you will mainly need to deal with your stuff going elsewhere online, but it is when others claim to have shot your image, this is where having the RAW original is the smoking gun. You can prove, with RAW, you took the shot. Problem is, most wannabe photographers do not have the deep pockets needed to pay damages. Things go moot pretty quickly.

Putting it the OTHER way, if you and your copyright violator met, signed a delivery form in blood (both of your blood on the form,) and the violator is a DEEP POCKET, the blood oath will be dismissed as trivial and invalid the instant you go to litigation. Then, the deep pocket just waits for you to give up. It's all about the lawyers. Deep Pockets can afford hundreds of them. Against you. So you need a REALLY good lawyer. Cha-ching!

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Dec 10, 2011 13:17:45   #
nikonshooter Loc: Spartanburg, South Carolina
 
PhotoArtsLA wrote:
Well, having won a copyright suit which took 2 years of my time (full time,) I am rather expert on USC Title 17 these days.

Basically, what you shoot, is your copyright. However, if you do not make it official, as in, send in the image(s) and payment to the Copyright Office....

If someone, say, because of newsworthy timeliness, takes an image you shot, like a mass produced headshot not bearing your copyright, and hands it over to the Associated Press and United Press International, the result of which is your photo being seen by everyone, in every country, in every form, print and digital: you have no recourse. Way back when (a time before the Internet,) this happened to me concerning a shot I did of Donna Rice when Gary Hart was killing his political career. The story broke, and her agent gave the shot away. Bingo, my image, everywhere on earth, overnight. Oh well...

Having cemented in stone your copyright with the government (which was at least stamped on the back of the photo,) and you get a minimum of $100,000, with a few issues, like, does the violator have deep pockets?

Best practices are to EDIT your images, and simply copyright those with real value. Much of what we shoot has not much real value.

Finally, copyright litigation, or mediation (more common) involves the balance of access and similarity. In the old days, there were physical things called transparencies and prints, and there was no Internet. It was a more slam dunk world. Today, we post all our stuff online. At 72 dpi, and with lossy JPEG, you will mainly need to deal with your stuff going elsewhere online, but it is when others claim to have shot your image, this is where having the RAW original is the smoking gun. You can prove, with RAW, you took the shot. Problem is, most wannabe photographers do not have the deep pockets needed to pay damages. Things go moot pretty quickly.

Putting it the OTHER way, if you and your copyright violator met, signed a delivery form in blood (both of your blood on the form,) and the violator is a DEEP POCKET, the blood oath will be dismissed as trivial and invalid the instant you go to litigation. Then, the deep pocket just waits for you to give up. It's all about the lawyers. Deep Pockets can afford hundreds of them. Against you. So you need a REALLY good lawyer. Cha-ching!
Well, having won a copyright suit which took 2 yea... (show quote)


Hummmm.....so it's a billable hours thing ...hummm.

You are spot on!

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Dec 10, 2011 14:12:18   #
Cornishpete Loc: Illinois
 
Roger Hicks wrote:
Cornishpete wrote:
....and here's me thinking "Chance would be a fine thing for someone to actually want to steal my images!"
I do absolutely appreciate that when artists make a living from their work they see this very differently, but for me it has no more importance that someone hearing my words of great wisdom spoken while in the supermarket check-out line and using them in a letter to the editor of our local newspaper.( though I would be flattered if they mentioned that they were originally spoken by this Brit with a wonderful English accent) But having said that, thank you all for a truly fascinating five pages of info! Now I know why in this great country we have more lawyers per capita than in any other country in the universe!
....and here's me thinking "Chance would be a... (show quote)


Where in Cornwall?

And why've 'ee got an English accent there then, cap'n?

Cheers,

R. (from St. Dennis).
quote=Cornishpete ....and here's me thinking &quo... (show quote)


Aw Roger, it be bleddy 'ansom to hear from a Cornish lad. I 'bin over here in mid Illinois for nigh on twenty years and do miss the old place a bit but I do go back 'ome every year for a month. I soon get back to driving on the proper side of the road but for a while the locals do think I am some sort of emmet who can't handle the scrumpy.
Was born and raised in St Austell, out Mount Charles. Went to St Austell grammar School and graduated (that's the fancy word for 'left school' they use over 'ere as you know) in 1955 and went up London to college and work.
I am bravish embarassed about saying I speak 'english' but here in Edwardville Il. hardly anyone would know where Cornwall is' I tell 'ee.
I will be off to your web sites dreckly.
Regards, Pete Marks

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Dec 10, 2011 15:50:19   #
Roger Hicks Loc: Aquitaine
 
Dear Pete,

Damme, cap'n, St Austell Grammar was my mother's old school. She was a Reynolds. They ol' furriners don't properly know where God's Own Country'm really to.

I went out Californie in 1987, but it didn't take. Still got the Californian wife (married in 1982) but we'm in France now. Well, 'tis more like home than England. Lived in Kent 1992-2002 but twasn't proper, so we did move. Too many ol' Lunnoners in Cornwall. If thee'st ever in France, let I know.

But I do hope 'ee can get over for to my web-site faster'n dreckly. Have 'ee seen the bumper sticker, "Cornishmen do it dreckly"?

Note for foreigners (i.e. non-Cornishmen): 'dreckly' (= directly) has been translated as 'maƱana, but without anything like the same sense of urgency'.

Cheers,

R.

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