sbesaw Loc: Boston

These are both (cameras) made at same plant in Japan. Glass is identical. You are paying $350 Plus for a red dot and their (Leica's) software (which is very good) but I doubt that you could ever see any difference between Leica software and Panasonic's. Perhaps in severally backlight situations. This is not an M9 where the dollars warrant the difference. This is a bridge camera where Leica wanted into the market without the R&D and Panasonic got to throw the Leica label on their Bridge Camera. A win for all. There are always those who will gladly pay more for a name without understanding that in some cases there is a big difference and in some cases like the V-Lux4 vs the FZ200 not so much. Either way you are getting a great camera just paying a lot more than you need to if you want the Dot.

RobertW Loc: Breezy Point, New York

Point well taken, but Leica Rangefinder and mechanism is as basic photography as can be found...I'll stick with it

sbesaw Loc: Boston

Apples and oranges. Like preferring your 1967 Jaguar XKE to a 1964 corvair.

Leica rangefinders were the Holy Grail of rangefinders

Shutterbugsailer Loc: Staten Island NY (AKA Cincinnati by the Sea)

To understand the relationship between Leica and Panasonic, one can look to Toyota when they started up their Lexus luxury line. While their first model was unique to Lexus and had significantly higher content than anything sold at that time under the Toyota label. Later on, they decided to broaden their appeal with less expensive models, which, for the most part, were either "pimped out", or simply relabeled versions of Toyota cars and sold for thousands more. To make it harder for customers to appreciate that, they didn't allow Toyota and Lexus to be sold in the same showroom. At any rate, the buying public has caught on, and now they are totally distinct lines. In similar fashion, the low end Leicas are pimped out versions of Panasonic products with merely a red dot and higher price tag attached. I suspect dealers who carry both keep them as far apart in the store as possible.

sbesaw Loc: Boston

We carry both and they are fairly close together. Belief is that a well informed consumer is a better customer. Software is different and some of higher end like d lux6 used to bundle in LR

asyncritus

I bought one, and quite honestly, it is nearly miraculous.

Here are some pics on my blog:http://myleicavlux4.blogspot.co.uk/

For what it is, is is extremely cheap too, never mind the whining you read.

Just imagine the bill for: A top class Nikon DSLR body, plus a 18 -55 zoom plus a 50 -200 zoom plus a 250 -500 zoom.

That's £489 + £241 + $$$$6,749 USD, and you still haven't got to 600mm as the VLUX4, nor have you got an f2.8 max aperture RIGHT THROUGH THE ZOOM RANGE.

How much is that, I ask? Over £££3000.

So here is a LEICA, no less, with the absolute dream lens of a lifetime, for £600 or so, depending on where you get it from.

So my advice to you, sir, is buy the camera for your daughter. She will never regret it, and neither will you.

Fran Loc: Northeast, United States

I also have the FZ200 and it is an awesome camera. I was shooting one night with my DSLR and the photographer I was shooting with works for Panasonic. He said for all intents and purpose the fz200 is the same camera. Specs match and They both use a Leica lens. The only thing missing from the FZ is the little red dot.

sbesaw Loc: Boston

And the $350 you have in your pocket with the FZ200. To the poster who raves about the Leica (great camera BTW) please list the the specs on the Leica that differ from the $300 less expensive Panasonic FZ200. They are, save for software, identical in features and hardware.

asyncritus

You'll really notice the difference when it comes to resale time! That's a promise.

sbesaw Loc: Boston

Can't argue that. People will pay more for the Red Dot even if it's the same basic camera.
But let's see. Used ebay and looked at last 5 sales of each camera. Camera had to have a bid so it's legit, not buy it now.
Average resale on Leica based on last five sales, used $ 625
Average resale on FZ200 based on last five sales, used $ $358

Cost on New Leica (B&H) $899 resale $625 cost to own $274
Cost on New FZ200 (B&H) $449 resale $ 358 Cost to own $91

amehta Loc: Boston

Size matters, and in this case, smaller is better. Is she going to want to carry a camera around in a camera bag, or will she want something that will easily slip into a backpack or small purse? If you think she wants something the size of the bridge cameras, go for it. But if a compact P&S makes more sense, the Sony RX100/RX100II is one of the best. It has a Zeiss lens, so you can feel like you're being a good grandpa. :-)

If someone wants to learn photography, the main things the camera needs are
* a fast lens
* manual ISO setting
* aperture priority
* exposure compensation
* focus point selection
Meanwhile, I don't think the camera needs a huge zoom range, and I think the image quality goes down if the lens tries to do too much.

asyncritus

Hi sbesaw

I'm not a techie, and so I'd probably be talking nonsense if I tried.

But features aren't benefits, and the benefits of the vlux4 are not exactly quantifiable.

Having used it for a few months now, I can testify to the beauty of its handling.

It's silky smooth, hardly audible, light, completely unobtrusive, and the lens reaches from here to South Africa! We-l-l-l-l, nearly!

At 600mm the image stabiliser has kicked in, and the camera is as steady as a rock unless I twitch or shake.

And as I mentioned before, the price differential between the Leica and anything comparable from Nikon is absolutely enormous. That's quantifiable!

The pictures it takes can't really be faulted (unless I made some kind of boo-boo), and they're a pleasure to look at.

There is that incredible range of graduated tonal hues and tints, which lights up shadows with that delicate luminous touch for which Leica is justly famous.

The colours it produces are completely natural (unless I'm playing with the exposure and GIMP).

I know that's not an answer to your question, really, merely a personal expression of what I have found out about the camera in the short time I've had it.

It's sweet. And I can't say much more than that.

twindad Loc: SW Michigan, frolicking in the snow.

When my twin boys went to college 7 years ago, I bought them both point and shoot cameras. Today they couldn't even tell me where those cameras are.
Your granddaughter is a KID, and at this age her interests probably change on a daily basis. I think your heart is in the right place, but as a practical measure, I'd go with something much less expensive. Then, if her interest continues, get her something nicer.

sbesaw Loc: Boston

Hi asyncritus,

I completely agree and my comments are directed to the use of the Panasonic FZ200 and the Leica V Lux 4. They have nothing to due with who takes what to college as this post was started a long time ago and probably resurrected by someone who didn't notice the date.

As to V LUX, 4 great camera. As I have access to pretty much every camera short of Phase One and Hasselblad I had the opportunity to shoot both the Panasonic FZ200 and Leica V LUX4 side by side. I found the build quality identical, because it is the same camera, 600 mm lens, crisp, sharp with great stabilization in both cameras because they are the same. Your silky smooth comment is right on for both as they are the same camera. BTW you mention Nikon and I don't understand why as the discussion is about Panasonic and Leica. Maybe I mentioned that I shoot Nikon, I also shoot Olympus and Panasonic.

Now for image appearance I agree with you. Both cameras, though identical in every cosmetic and physical feature have different .jpeg rendering software, I did notice a little more (and I mean a Little) range in shadows and a slight difference in the way they treat colors/colours. To that end in the rare case where the difference in dynamic range impacts the look or feel I am trying to achieve I can correct in post. As to color rendition differences it is a toss up, I like some of the Leica color treatment based on subject more, on other subjects I liked the Panasonic more.

My take away, if you like the look, feel, range and quality of the V LUX4 and have the money, spend $899 US for the Leica and you will have a great camera. My other take away, if you like the look, feel, range and quality of the V LUX4 and don't have the money, spend $449 US for the Panasonic and you will have a great camera.

Now if you want more fun go to www.dpreview.com and compare the Panasonic LX-7 and the Leica D-Lux 6. TA-DA same camera

Hoping you New Year is off to a great start

Cheers,

Skip