TrainNut Loc: Ridin' the rails

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Abraham Lincoln


Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin109276.html#dkfuhTk57H4gA1YX.99


I love Abe Lincon. :-D

ps34109

I agree. It leaves little doubt about character.

jvo Loc: left coast of the east coast

let's see an expert in medical care talking about the impact of ACA, is countered by a culture critic talking in generalities, no facts, with opinion and an acerbic tone in his arsenal.

this is valid argument?

ignorance is curable, stupidity is forever.

heyrob Loc: Western Washington

Yes and your ignorance is showing. ‘Obamacare’ health care reform is ALREADY forcing doctors to close practices. A recent survey by the Doctor Patient Medical
Association Foundation found that 83% of respondent doctors are thinking about quitting, 90% say that the health care system is on the wrong track, and 70% say REDUCING GOVERNMENT would be single best fix.
http://www.dpmafoundation.org/physician-attitudes-on-medicine.html

So if stupid is forever and ignorance is curable, are you changing your mind or are you stupid?

ps34109

Ronald Reagan telling dittoheads, of the time, how the USA is going to be destroyed if the Medicare Act was passed. Wow, he was wrong.

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2009/09/ronald-reagan-on-medicare-circa-1961-prescient-rhetoric-or-familiar-alarmist-claptrap-.html

ps34109

Please listen to all and hear the same threats that are being used right now. Doctors are going to quit, blah, blah, blah.

steve03 Loc: long Lsland

This group The Doctor Patient Medical Association Foundation is a front group for ALEC. sure you can depend on that survey?

jvo Loc: left coast of the east coast

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07/10/comically-awful-survey-says-83-percent-of-docto/187029

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Doctor_Patient_Medical_Association

need more?

you still have no facts... by the way 67% of all statistics are made up.

(the only real understanding of whether it's gonna work will be 5 years from now - but intelligent debate is fun?) :)

Ron Of TN Loc: Middle Tenn

ALEC seems to be an excellent group:

The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) is a 501(c)(3) American organization composed of legislators, businesses and foundations which produces model policies for state legislatures and promotes free markets, limited government, and federalism at the state level. According to the organization's website, members share a common belief that "government closest to the people" is "fundamentally more effective, more just, and a better guarantor of freedom than the distant, bloated federal government in Washington, D.C." In a Dec. 2011 opinion piece critical of ALEC which appeared in The Nation magazine, John Nichols described ALEC as a "collaboration between multinational corporations and conservative state legislators."

ALEC provides a forum for state legislator and corporate members to collaborate on "model policies"—draft legislation that members can customize for communities and introduce for debate in their own state legislatures. Approximately 200 per year become law.[6] ALEC has produced model policy on issues such as reducing corporate regulation and taxation, tightening voter identification rules, digital due process, streamlining or minimizing environmental protections, over-criminalization and promoting gun rights. ALEC also serves as a networking tool among state legislators, allowing them to research the handling and "best practices" of policy in other states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALEC

steve03 Loc: long Lsland

ALEC Drafts proposed legislation in favor of corporations that sustain it. If you are in favor of corporations making laws that run this country fine but I am in favor of laws that help the people not hurt them in favor of laws that help only corporations. If you believe these organizations that have an agenda fine, but why, when their only interest is corporate profits.

heyrob Loc: Western Washington

Nice to see you're sticking to the liberal play book, "Rules for radicals" i.e. "Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon." If the data goes against your belief, you ridicule it or the source. Nice try, but ridicule will only work for the uninformed. Therefore your tactic will not work on me.

heyrob Loc: Western Washington

Nicely presented.

jvo Loc: left coast of the east coast

don't think that was ridicule... he asked a valid question, no?

heyrob Loc: Western Washington

Since you wish to criticize my source, lets turn the tables shall we?



http://mediamatters.org/about "Media Matters for America is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation.
in the U.S. media. - Yeah, that sounds like a completely unbiased source.




As usual the bias of PoliticFact is showing, this so called fact check organization is made up of mostly left leaning journalists, and has been called out for it's bias on more than one occasion. Excuse me if I fail to accept this as a definitive source of unbiased truth.




Directly from the websire "The Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) publishes SourceWatch" and while the Center for Media and Democracy sounds very high minded and reliable, from it's own self-description "The Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) is a non-partisan progressive watchdog group led by Lisa Graves" The Washington Post has described CMD as "a liberal organization that tracks the use of public relations by corporations and politicians"

So your posted links are directly attributable to progressive and liberally biased sources and you went me to accept those as proof of your points? Not likely.

ps34109

I'm interested if anyone listened to Reagan's gloom/doom speech about how the US would crumble if the Medicare Act was passed and wonder if anyone had to tell their children what it was like at a time when people 'used to be free' before the act was passed.