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More on 68 round shooting in Florida...
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Jul 13, 2013 10:05:22   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Origins: Just before noon on 28 September 2006, Polk County Deputy Doug Speirs pulled over a speeding rental car bearing Kentucky tags in Lakeland, Florida. That vehicle was being driven by Angilo Freeland, a 27-year-old Antiguan man who had been arrested on various charges in 1999 but had afterwards skipped bail. When Freeland handed Deputy Speirs a fraudulently obtained drivers license bearing another man's name, something about the proffered I.D. bothered Speirs, so he called for backup. Deputy Matt Williams and his police dog, DiOGi, were dispatched to the scene.

Likely sensing things weren't going well, Freeland broke from the officers and ran into the woods. He took cover in the densely forested area near a fallen oak tree that made him all but impossible to see. The two officers and the dog went into the woods after him, Williams and DiOGi working one area, and Speirs another.

As DiOGi closed on the suspect's hiding place, Freeland shot the dog in the chest from close range at an upward angle, killing it. He then fired on nearby Deputy Williams, wounding him

in the right wrist, left bicep, rear left thigh, right leg, right buttock, and upper right arm. One of the shots penetrated to the officer's spine. Freeland then approached the immobilized man and delivered two shots to Williams' head at point-blank range, finishing him off.

Deputy Speirs heard the shots from a nearby ridge, moved towards the sounds of the gunfire, and was shot at by Freeland. The two exchanged fire, and the deputy was wounded in the leg. He radioed for help and made his way out of the woods.

Every available unit and canine team descended on the area. Freeland briefly appeared at the perimeter of the woods to fire at the officers but then took cover again. He dug in under another fallen oak tree and hid there. Later that afternoon the body of 39-year-old Deputy Williams, a father of three, was found and carried from the wooded area. Officers noted that the slain man's gun and ammo were missing.

Freeland remained under the oak tree overnight, where a 10-member SWAT team found him the next morning. When they saw Freeland raise his right hand clutching a gun (one they would later learn belonged to the dead deputy), nine of the ten officers fired, hitting him with 68 of 110 shots. Freeland was dead at the scene.

Afterwards, when called upon by the media to make a statement about the manhunt and its outcome, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd explained: "You have to understand, he had already shot and killed a deputy, he had already shot and killed a K-9, and he shot and injured another deputy. Quite frankly, we weren't taking any chances." Sheriff Judd was variously reported as adding, "That's all the bullets we had or we would have shot him more" and "I suspect the only reason 110 rounds was all that was fired was that's all the ammunition they had."

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/crime/cops/judd.asp#jHdtjiELZPzLS0EJ.99



A SWAT TEAM missed him 42 times!

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Jul 13, 2013 10:22:06   #
sarge69 Loc: Ft Myers, FL
 
Excitement in battle results in a 'spray and pray' type of senario. But in battle with noise and zinging by your ear, it is hard to relax, aim and squeeze off good shots. Plus, if you are using a pistol and your target is more than 50 to 100 feet away, you are at a disadvantage. Get a M16 and extend your killing range.

Sarge69
Been there - Done that

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Jul 13, 2013 13:52:49   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
sarge69 wrote:
Excitement in battle results in a 'spray and pray' type of senario. But in battle with noise and zinging by your ear, it is hard to relax, aim and squeeze off good shots. Plus, if you are using a pistol and your target is more than 50 to 100 feet away, you are at a disadvantage. Get a M16 and extend your killing range.

Sarge69
Been there - Done that


First, thats not battle, as you experienced. It was a ten member Swat
Team, with special equipment and training, using (presumably) long guns.

They were against a single adversary, with a pistol.

After the first ten hits, he had to be dead--then they emptied their weapons shooting recreationally into a dead body--58 additional hits, and many, too many misses.

If a buddy of the perp stood up, he would face 9 swat team members without ammo. How sound is that?

Mighty unprofessional...

Poor leadership of the sheriff to encourage his men in this.

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Jul 13, 2013 15:45:56   #
sarge69 Loc: Ft Myers, FL
 
Twardlow wrote:
First, thats not battle, as you experienced. It was a ten member Swat
Team, with special equipment and training, using (presumably) long guns.

They were against a single adversary, with a pistol.

After the first ten hits, he had to be dead--then they emptied their weapons shooting recreationally into a dead body--58 additional hits, and many, too many misses.

If a buddy of the perp stood up, he would face 9 swat team members without ammo. How sound is that?

Mighty unprofessional...

Poor leadership of the sheriff to encourage his men in this.
First, thats not battle, as you experienced. It w... (show quote)


I guess my thought of battle might be:

An enemy running and hiding in ambush, waiting for me and my comrades to come close, shoot to kill from a hidden position. But then again, that's me.

Sarge69

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Jul 13, 2013 17:05:52   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
sarge69 wrote:
I guess my thought of battle might be:

An enemy running and hiding in ambush, waiting for me and my comrades to come close, shoot to kill from a hidden position. But then again, that's me.

Sarge69


I'll buy that.

This was a single (guilty) man with a pistol, facing ten men of a swat team, who killed him with the first (ten?) hits, then stood around and killed him 58 more times.

In my book, that's little boys playing cowboy.

No offense intended about your service...tom

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Jul 13, 2013 19:40:34   #
Bruce with a Canon Loc: Islip
 
Twardlow wrote:
First, thats not battle, as you experienced. It was a ten member Swat
Team, with special equipment and training, using (presumably) long guns.

They were against a single adversary, with a pistol.

After the first ten hits, he had to be dead--then they emptied their weapons shooting recreationally into a dead body--58 additional hits, and many, too many misses.

If a buddy of the perp stood up, he would face 9 swat team members without ammo. How sound is that?

Mighty unprofessional...

Poor leadership of the sheriff to encourage his men in this.
First, thats not battle, as you experienced. It w... (show quote)




When you get your CIB or feel free to chastise those that face gunfire.

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Jul 14, 2013 08:45:37   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
Lots of folks who have never been in a gun fight sure know what should be done and what they would do.

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Jul 14, 2013 08:49:48   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Bruce with a Canon wrote:
When you get your CIB or feel free to chastise those that face gunfire.


Don't understand your comment, but I stand behind what I said.

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Jul 14, 2013 08:54:13   #
sarge69 Loc: Ft Myers, FL
 
Twardlow wrote:
Don't understand your comment, but I stand behind what I said.


That's right - You DON'T understand. The CIB is 'Combat Infantry Badge' only awarded to those that face combat as a member of the U.S. Armed Forces.

When someone is firing at YOU, regardless of whether it's a civilian with a gun or a foreign military member, you're main concern is to eliminate that threat in any manner. A wounded enemy is like a wounded animal, extremely dangerous and unpredictable.

IF you were in the service, you have forgotten a lot.

Sarge69

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Jul 14, 2013 09:35:23   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
sarge69 wrote:
That's right - You DON'T understand. The CIB is 'Combat Infantry Badge' only awarded to those that face combat as a member of the U.S. Armed Forces.

When someone is firing at YOU, regardless of whether it's a civilian with a gun or a foreign military member, you're main concern is to eliminate that threat in any manner. A wounded enemy is like a wounded animal, extremely dangerous and unpredictable.

IF you were in the service, you have forgotten a lot


Sarge69




I don't understand, sarge, because his sentence has no verb, and therefor, no meaning.

Furthermore, my point--which everyone ignores--is that after you kill a man forty-five times, it is childish, immature, and unprofessional to kill him twenty more times. He has long passed being the wounded enemy you suggest.

My larger point is this: a police force that pepper sprays handcuffed suspects, not to assume control of a situation, but because they enjoy doing it, or tazering people who pose no threat, because they enjoy doing it, or shoot a dead body 68 times because they like to hear their guns go off, is not a police force a citizen can respect...or trust.

If anyone disagrees with that, we have pretty different ideas of 'society.'

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Jul 14, 2013 09:54:07   #
sarge69 Loc: Ft Myers, FL
 
68 times is maybe excessive but assured those present there would be no return shots or surprises.

Personally I've seen soldiers shot 6 times and come back to duty the next week. Number of shots isn't important, its the location where the shots hit.

Distant targets - body mass
Close targets - head shot
Two shots only and then check them out
Still moving - two more shots

Sarge69

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Jul 14, 2013 09:54:38   #
jamitjim73 Loc: Franklin,Tn.
 
Sarge- back me up on this one - ok now you have 10 swat members firing their weapons at presumably the same time, it would only take a few seconds to get off 60 rounds, so it's not like they were taking turns shooting a dead man. does this make any sense?

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Jul 14, 2013 10:06:57   #
sarge69 Loc: Ft Myers, FL
 
I could just see that.

Hey mike, your turn. 10 shots

Hey Joe, now your turn, try for head shots.

Etc etc etc

This guys would not be shoulder to shoulder.

The noise would be overpowering. The adrenaline cursing through their veins.

Each team member more or less oblivious of anything but his/her own safety and hell bent on taking down the target.

Sarge69

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Jul 14, 2013 10:14:01   #
republican Loc: Glendora. Ca
 
When I was in the army and being shot at I never counted how many bullets I used to return fire. my concern was they stopped shooting at me and I continued fireing until I was sure they were dead. when you have been shot at you can complain, until then please be quiet

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Jul 14, 2013 10:23:13   #
imntrt1 Loc: St. Louis
 
jamitjim73 wrote:
Sarge- back me up on this one - ok now you have 10 swat members firing their weapons at presumably the same time, it would only take a few seconds to get off 60 rounds, so it's not like they were taking turns shooting a dead man. does this make any sense?


I'll back you up on that...The aim (pardon the pun) is not necessarily to kill a threat...It is to STOP THE THREAT. That does not allow the luxury of stopping, taking a time out to check and see if the threat is gone most of the time. In armed confrontations you do not know if the guy is dead or not, so they were not just firing at a dead guy, they were firing at a known threat. This guy had ambushed the officers during this engagement and it was necessary to stop him at all costs. Having not been there, I do not care to Monday morning quarterback the officers on their response to this deadly threat. Having been in shooting situations while in Law Enforcement, I know the stresses and adrenaline involved....These guys did nothing wrong in my from experience book.

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