F16 Club

Well, this is awkward. The Associated Press:

CIA Director John Brennan is launching a new campaign aimed at pressuring CIA officers to keep the intelligence agency's secrets secret, after a series of leaks to the media. In a memo to the CIA workforce this week, Brennan says the "Honor the Oath," campaign is intended to "reinforce our corporate culture of secrecy" through education and training. The Associated Press obtained the memo Wednesday, marked unclassified and for official use only.
Nice pep talk, coach.
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What the NSA costs taxpayers
The NSA is one of at least 15 intelligence agencies, and combined the total U.S. intelligence budget in 2012 was $75 billion, said Steve Aftergood, director of the government secrecy program at the Federation of American Scientists, a nonpartisan think tank that analyzes national and international security issues.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/07/news/economy/nsa-surveillance-cost/index.html
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Eric Cantor says FAA could cut funds to avoid furloughs
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/apr/26/eric-cantor/eric-cantor-says-faa-could-cut-funds-avoid-furloug/
Under the sweeping austerity triggered by congressional inaction on deficit reduction, the FAA was required to cut $600 million from its budget.

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A San Francisco airport spokesman said that a component of the facility's instrument landing system that tracks the glide path of incoming airplanes was not working on Saturday, Reuters reported.

The computerized system, known as Glide Path, calculates a plane's path of descent and sends the information to pilots in real time.

Reuters said a notice on the Federal Aviation Administration website showed that the airport had turned off the system for almost the entire summer on the runway where the flight crashed.

Reuter noted that pilots and air safety experts say the technology is far from essential for a safe landing in good weather.*

:evil:

TucsonCoyote Loc: Tucson AZ

Yes! 7 seconds before impact the pilot was given info to increase power .....had he listened and complied we would not be having this discussion !

F16 Club

TucsonCoyote; Neither I , let see the outcome next year.

Weather at SFO..

METAR text: KSFO 061856Z 21007KT 170V240 10SM FEW016 18/10 A2982 RMK AO2 SLP098 T01830100
Conditions at: KSFO (SAN FRANCISCO , CA, US) observed 1856 UTC 06 July 2013
Temperature: 18.3°C (65°F)
Dewpoint: 10.0°C (50°F) [RH = 58%]
Pressure (altimeter): 29.82 inches Hg (1009.9 mb)
[Sea-level pressure: 1009.8 mb]
Winds: from the SSW (210 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 knots; 3.6 m/s)
Visibility: 10 or more miles (16+ km)
Ceiling: at least 12,000 feet AGL
Clouds: few clouds at 1600 feet AGL
Weather: no significant weather observed at this time

Here is the ATC courtesy of LiveATC.net

http://wandr.me/Audio/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3

KLM Boeing B747-400 Landing San Francisco Cockpit view

http://youtu.be/I0Y6GTI9pg4

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

He did listen and he did try... on the news. The Black Box tells all.

TucsonCoyote Loc: Tucson AZ

His reflexes were a little slow, he finally increased power less than 2 seconds before impact!
You can't be complacent when flying .....he really knows that now!

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

PILOT WAS ON 1ST TRAINING FLIGHT TO SFO...
Just 43 hours flying time on Boeing 777...
Tried to abort landing -- 1.5 seconds before impact...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2357662/Asiana-Airlines-crash-First-photographs-inside-wrecked-San-Francisco-plane.html

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SAN_FRANCISCO_AIRLINER_CRASH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-07-17-49-55

One can't expect that input to the controls of a massive jet just 1.5 seconds before impact is going to get any immediate response from the aircraft that has the mass, and velocity, of that 777 at the time of an attempted landing.

The person at the controls was on a training flight to SFO and only 43 hours of flying time in that model aircraft, probably busier than a one legged man in a shin kicking contest on all of which he was concentrating, etc.

Electrical equipment being off, a situation that was a well known fact, NOTAMS, prior to even taking off, should not affect a pilot in weather as ideal for flying as SFO had that day.

imntrt1 Loc: St. Louis

Those Turbines just don't spool up quickly...He should have known that at the very least, or not been cleared to fly them. If memory serves me correctly wasn't that the cause of Thurmond Muson's Crash years ago. He got too low and slow and couldn't recover airspeed quickly enough while doing touch and goes in a Citation.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Thurman L. Munson, Cessna Citation 501, N15NY

Canton, Ohio
August 2, 1979

NTSB Number: AAR-80-02
Executive Summary

About 1602 e.d.t., on August 2, 1979, a Cessna Citation piloted by Mr.Thurman L. Munson crashed short of runway 19 at the Akron-Canton Airport near Canton, Ohio. The pilot was practicing touch-and-go landings during a local flight with two passengers aboard. The aircraft first touched down in a relatively level, clear area about 870 f t short of the runway. The aircraft slid through a small clump of trees, hit a large stump, and came to rest on a road adjacent to the airport boundary fence. Fire erupted immediately after the aircraft came to rest. The two passengers escaped from the wreckage; the pilot was killed.
Probable Cause

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the accident was the pilot's failure to recognize the need for, and to take action to maintain, sufficient airspeed to prevent a stall into the ground during an attempted landing. The pilot also failed to recognize the need for timely and sufficient power application to prevent the stall during an approach conducted inadvertently without flaps extended. Contributing to the pilot's inability to recognize the problem and to take proper action was his failure to use the appropriate checklist and his nonstandard pattern procedures which resulted in an abnormal approach profile.

imntrt1 Loc: St. Louis

If I recall correctly, he survived the crash only to be consumed by the post crash fire. I also seem to remember that of the two that got out, one of them was his instructor, which tells me that the instructor wasn't doing his job correctly either.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Considering this line in the report, "Contributing to the pilot's inability to recognize the problem and to take proper action was his failure to use the appropriate checklist and his nonstandard pattern procedures which resulted in an abnormal approach profile", it seems his instructor failed miserably, as well.

imntrt1 Loc: St. Louis

Makes me wonder if the Instructor was a little "Star Struck" considering who his student was. Perhaps hesitated at calling him out on his approach?

GAClowers Loc: Tacoma, Washington

Even 7 seconds would not have helped. It is inexcusable to be training a relative novice with a full load of passengers. Hopefully this is not happening on any of our U.S. Airlines. I know that most airlines send their pilots to Boing for training in different models. The final verdict is that both pilots and their Airline screwed up! This will feed many lawyers for many years.

imntrt1 Loc: St. Louis

Sad but true....It was extremely lucky there was not a large loss of life.

eye2eye Loc: Chicago, Illinois

Incredible that before the evidence of the back box is even revealed, a UHH'er is debating the issue of who's fault the plane crash was. People are dead and it's a tragedy. I don't think its appropriate to debate and point a finger at anyone including the pilot. Do you really think he was "casually" thinking about what he should do during the last ten seconds of that flight? I'm sure he wasn't thinking to himself, "Yeah, today's a good day to slow down my reactions and really think about things. That's what my horoscope said to do". Then again, none of us will ever really know what he was thinking because none of us were there or have the ability to get inside someones head to understand their thought process.

imntrt1 Loc: St. Louis

Have you gone through any pilot training? There are certain things you learn in flight training that should be second nature by the time you advance to carrying passengers for a living...advanced intense training that is meant to prevent things like this from happening. This is one of those preventable accidents, that is almost as clear as it comes in these types of incidents. We are not debating about his thought process during the approach....just what he should have been done and apparently was not. Jets, or turbine powered aircraft require different skill sets than piston powered planes, and if you do not do exactly what is supposed to be done in the order it is supposed to be done, it will come back tragically and bite you and your passengers in the backside. What good comes out of these incidents, is the review that follows them and the changes that are made to hopefully prevent them in the future, making us all safer in the long haul. These debates that you think inappropriate are healthy and come from educated guessing, which is exactly what the NTSB and the FAA do to reach their conclusions many times. Were it not for debates such as this one, air travel would be much more dangerous than it is today.