Traditional Photographer - Photoshop Needed?
May 25, 2013 19:36:10 #
I'm a traditional photographer who never does heavy editing to any photo; just not my thing. Currently I use Paintshop Pro to brighten, change contrast and run color balance to make my photos stand out, but never touching the true appearance. I've thought about buying Photoshop but since I don't tweak my work, would it be worth the $750? Does Photoshop offer more tools to make my photos crisper? What does photoshop do that paintshop doesn't? I also thought about buying the Student/Teacher version of Photoshop, which is half the price; but what couldn't I do with that version? What about Photoshop Elements or Lightroom? Do I need to have Photoshop already to make these work?
Thanks,
Chad
Thanks,
Chad
May 25, 2013 19:43:31 #
May I suggest you go here, Chad?
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/search.jsp?q=photo+shop&u=&s=0
That's the search portion of this forum. Lot of help there.
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/search.jsp?q=photo+shop&u=&s=0
That's the search portion of this forum. Lot of help there.
May 25, 2013 19:45:26 #
May 25, 2013 19:50:57 #
Chaxl wrote:
I'm a traditional photographer who never does heav... (show quote)
Chad, you really are the only one who can decide whether or not Photoshop will be more beneficial to you than Paintshop Pro.
I have a "passing acquaintance" with PS, but none with PSP. Also be aware, that unless you can prove that you are a teacher or a student, you will not be able to use the Student/Teacher version. Adobe wants that proof.
Lightroom and Photoshop Elements are stand-alone programs, although Lightroom can work very closely with PS or PSE. I have never used LR, although I downloaded the beta version for LR5, I have deleted it again. I found the learning curve to steep.
OTOH, I have been using PSE since version 7, am now on version 11 (the most recent), and I would say that possibly if you want to do more with your photos, this would be the program.
If you decide to go that way, compare prices: I think the current lowest is around $80, but in the beginning of the year, Costco had it on for $49.
Be prepared for a learning curve here too!
You can download Photoshop, Photoshop Elements and Lightroom and use them for 30 days on a trial basis.
Hope this helps you at least a little bit!
EstherP
May 25, 2013 19:51:41 #
I'd never spend a lot of money for Photoshop, unless I was a professional and making a living doing photography work. Or, if I just had a lot of extra money.
There are too many good programs available for lower prices or even free. The one you have is good. Another one is GIMP, which is free, and has a lot of features similar to PS.
There are too many good programs available for lower prices or even free. The one you have is good. Another one is GIMP, which is free, and has a lot of features similar to PS.
May 25, 2013 19:55:19 #
Based on your self-description, Photoshop is way beyond your needs. Lightroom and/or Photoshop Elements should be right up your alley.
May 25, 2013 20:02:46 #
MisterWilson wrote:
I'd never spend a lot of money for Photoshop, unless I was a professional and making a living doing photography work. Or, if I just had a lot of extra money.
There are too many good programs available for lower prices or even free. The one you have is good. Another one is GIMP, which is free, and has a lot of features similar to PS.
There are too many good programs available for lower prices or even free. The one you have is good. Another one is GIMP, which is free, and has a lot of features similar to PS.
You can download CS2 from the adobe site for free...if you are so inclined...but as Captain said...it might be more than you want or need.
If you want to try...be ready for a very steep learning curve.
May 25, 2013 20:48:32 #
Shallow learning curve. A steep curve means it is easy. Just because everyone gets it wrong does not change the definition.
May 25, 2013 21:30:13 #
Using Photoshop in conjunction with its RAW converter, Adobe Camera Raw, enables the photographer to develop the full potential of a given photograph.
That said, you could look into renting Photoshop. Adobe now offers that option.
Let me say if you've been using another photo editor, then transitioning to, say, CS6 should not prove too difficult. I'm inclined to believe once you experience the power at your fingertips in CS6, you'll never look back.
Adobe TV has plenty of free tutorials showing how to use CS6:
http://tv.adobe.com
Good luck.
That said, you could look into renting Photoshop. Adobe now offers that option.
Let me say if you've been using another photo editor, then transitioning to, say, CS6 should not prove too difficult. I'm inclined to believe once you experience the power at your fingertips in CS6, you'll never look back.
Adobe TV has plenty of free tutorials showing how to use CS6:
http://tv.adobe.com
Good luck.
Chaxl wrote:
I'm a traditional photographer who never does heav... (show quote)
Peak Above Tree Line, Capitol Reef NP
May 25, 2013 22:32:04 #
Chad:
I take it that you know the basics of photography! Right? Well here is my professional opinion of Photoshop! It has a truly steep learning curve, and might need a PhD in Adobe U. just to get a beginners license to use it correctly! And besides that, if all you are is a recreational photographer, then I recommend Corel Paintshop Pro X4 for beginners, not that you are a beginner, but it has some streamlined functions that leaves Photoshop in the dust! And at this writing, it is going for $24.00 on Amazon, and the books are $16.00 to 25.00 or something like that.
The reason I recommend Corell is because I am a disabled Veteran, having suffered a massive bleed inside my head, and my learning capabilities have been compromised. But...I do shoot good photos as do you, which do not need a lot of work, but some brightness and contrast adjustments! I do have an HDR shot that might interest you that I did with PaintShop Pro X2 a couple years ago. See attached! It is taken in Saint John's Cathedral here in Spokane, WA..The shot is a composit of six shots at F:8 from 1/1000-1/2 second. Corel has an HDR manipulation gizmo that takes all six exposures and does away with all high's and low's in each frame and VOILA! No shadows or burnt out highlights! Enjoy!
This is one benefit of the "X" series software by Corell. Don't think of getting X3! It was one of the worst iterations of the Corell line. X4 or X5 are truly marvelous, and can handle any problem you might want tweeked.
I forgot to mention RAW! It does that too, although I will never shoot RAW, because, what it means to me is
RAW-ten Photography...My opinion only! You see the purists of Photoshop breath RAW! With the mantra that Jpg strips the photo of its true meaning and essence! There fore if you do not include the shadows and highlights of the total frame, then something is missing!
In my Photo class, I placed a number of my best shots around the class, and told the class to pick out the ones that most resemble a RAW reworked photo. Well here is how the voting went...If anybody chose a RAW shot, they had to explain why! After the critique, I dropped this Photo bomb on them. I told them that all the photos were Jpeg, and that I do not believe that Jpeg is bad, and in the hands of an accomplished photographer that knows how to use a hand held meter, and can operate any camera totally manually, that RAW quality can be met without a 20 minute fix for each RAW photo, because the exposure was right the first time! Annnd, if in doubt, BRACKET, and use a polarizer on bright days!
Digiphot2
I take it that you know the basics of photography! Right? Well here is my professional opinion of Photoshop! It has a truly steep learning curve, and might need a PhD in Adobe U. just to get a beginners license to use it correctly! And besides that, if all you are is a recreational photographer, then I recommend Corel Paintshop Pro X4 for beginners, not that you are a beginner, but it has some streamlined functions that leaves Photoshop in the dust! And at this writing, it is going for $24.00 on Amazon, and the books are $16.00 to 25.00 or something like that.
The reason I recommend Corell is because I am a disabled Veteran, having suffered a massive bleed inside my head, and my learning capabilities have been compromised. But...I do shoot good photos as do you, which do not need a lot of work, but some brightness and contrast adjustments! I do have an HDR shot that might interest you that I did with PaintShop Pro X2 a couple years ago. See attached! It is taken in Saint John's Cathedral here in Spokane, WA..The shot is a composit of six shots at F:8 from 1/1000-1/2 second. Corel has an HDR manipulation gizmo that takes all six exposures and does away with all high's and low's in each frame and VOILA! No shadows or burnt out highlights! Enjoy!
This is one benefit of the "X" series software by Corell. Don't think of getting X3! It was one of the worst iterations of the Corell line. X4 or X5 are truly marvelous, and can handle any problem you might want tweeked.
I forgot to mention RAW! It does that too, although I will never shoot RAW, because, what it means to me is
RAW-ten Photography...My opinion only! You see the purists of Photoshop breath RAW! With the mantra that Jpg strips the photo of its true meaning and essence! There fore if you do not include the shadows and highlights of the total frame, then something is missing!
In my Photo class, I placed a number of my best shots around the class, and told the class to pick out the ones that most resemble a RAW reworked photo. Well here is how the voting went...If anybody chose a RAW shot, they had to explain why! After the critique, I dropped this Photo bomb on them. I told them that all the photos were Jpeg, and that I do not believe that Jpeg is bad, and in the hands of an accomplished photographer that knows how to use a hand held meter, and can operate any camera totally manually, that RAW quality can be met without a 20 minute fix for each RAW photo, because the exposure was right the first time! Annnd, if in doubt, BRACKET, and use a polarizer on bright days!
Digiphot2
HDR shot St. John's, Spokane, WA.
May 25, 2013 23:14:31 #
Chaxl wrote:
I'm a traditional photographer who never does heav... (show quote)
You can't go wrong with Elements!! :thumbup:
May 25, 2013 23:30:17 #
CaptainC wrote:
Shallow learning curve. A steep curve means it is easy. Just because everyone gets it wrong does not change the definition.
That's a case of the correct use being counter intuitive. We think of the difficulty of going up a steep hill and associate that with a steep learning curve. Besides that, the term is used so often to denote something difficult to learn that that has become the defacto definition.
There are several words that are perfectly innocent in their meaning, but because they sound like other words and begin with the letter N, they are considered offensive. Sometimes perception is more real than reality.
I remember as a kid, I would see both "flammable" and "inflammable" printed on trucks hauling gasoline. Because people thought one was the opposite of the other, "inflammable" was no longer used on gasoline trucks, and the word has fallen into disuse.
A little boy was marching in a parade, and he was the only one out of step. His proud mother said, "Oh, look. Little Billy is the only one in step."
May 26, 2013 00:05:18 #
Correct is correct and steep means easy. Just because people misuse (parrot) terms and do not understand them, does not change the definition.
Photoshop has a VERY SHALLOW learning curve. :-)
Photoshop has a VERY SHALLOW learning curve. :-)
May 26, 2013 01:52:41 #
CaptainC wrote:
Based on your self-description, Photoshop is way beyond your needs. Lightroom and/or Photoshop Elements should be right up your alley.
Chad, I agree.
But to answer your other question, the student version is exactly the same, in fact you get the next package up, not the barebones PS. Just a way to sell you a little more, since it's already so discounted.
Download the free versions and check them out. But the learning curves are SO steep, I don't think a month will tell you much.
Good luck
May 26, 2013 04:52:10 #
Captain:
I realize that maybe in your vernacular, steep means down hill only...Am I right in thinking in that direction?
Oh well, If that is the point, then every steep hill that I encountered with my bike had to be easy!!! No matter if it is going up or down! I guess with your thinking, I will have to give it a try to find out...I got it! After two hours and a mile traveled, I guess it was an easy steep hill! So the next hill I encountered was an easy steep hill too! I made a mile in 1.5 minutes! So all steep hills are the same! Right? It is all in how you look at them, on a Harley or Schwinn! There is no such thing as a difficult steep hill in your life, they all must be easy right, no matter the energy expended to conquer it??? It is your call.
Where this is going is this...I worked successfully for 12 years at Boeing as an illustrator on a $70,000, user friendly graphics computer, and the documents group had photoshop, on their Apple based graphics computers. I tried to watch and understand what exactly it took to make a simple graphic, let's say a red circle with a slash through it, on their machine, and I almost passed out over the complexity of that software, and the gyrations needed to make a simple circle and then that 45 degree slash through it! Somebody later, gave me an old copy of Photoshop, and the instruction book...NICE! Not really! The instruction book looked like the New York City Phone book! It was over three inches thick! Must be easy.....Right? Piece of cake!
I had Essentials in the past, but found Corel more forgiving and easy to operate. But with Kelby lurking in the wings, there is always that queasy feeling in my gut that his motivation is not to make Elements fun, but to bait the user into purchasing Photoshop...There is just enough left out, in Elements, to force the issue. And as I also stated about RAW, it too is overkill...But Nikon/Canon will keep throwing out the "Jpeg is bad!" bait just to see if we will bite.
Now unless you are in the Mensa program for the mentally blessed, then knock yourself out and purchase Photoshop! I was just suggesting to that gentleman, that if all he did was tweek his photos, then he is an excellent photographer, and that Corell was to my knowledge, the best suggestion for his photography needs.
I used to use fly swatters for eliminating flies, but found that because they were so fast, I could not always hit them, so I decided to use my 12 gauge shotgun! It was noisy, but it worked! The only draw back was this...It took days to find the remains of the fly, and that hole!!!...If you get my drift. Ha Ha!
I never liked Kelby and his Photoshop Dynasty! Have you seen the price of his Photoshop RAG? He is as bad as George Gates and Microsoft! Both are poised for world domination and raking in as much money as possible, and we are at the mercy of their, greed and desire to fill their bank accounts, at our expense!
Long live Paintshop Pro! It ain't pretty, but the price is right, and I'm happy with it! It is only $24.00 for the last iteration! Beats $750.00 for the student discounted Photoshop software! And that NYC Phone Book sized instruction book! Wow!
Digiphot2
I realize that maybe in your vernacular, steep means down hill only...Am I right in thinking in that direction?
Oh well, If that is the point, then every steep hill that I encountered with my bike had to be easy!!! No matter if it is going up or down! I guess with your thinking, I will have to give it a try to find out...I got it! After two hours and a mile traveled, I guess it was an easy steep hill! So the next hill I encountered was an easy steep hill too! I made a mile in 1.5 minutes! So all steep hills are the same! Right? It is all in how you look at them, on a Harley or Schwinn! There is no such thing as a difficult steep hill in your life, they all must be easy right, no matter the energy expended to conquer it??? It is your call.
Where this is going is this...I worked successfully for 12 years at Boeing as an illustrator on a $70,000, user friendly graphics computer, and the documents group had photoshop, on their Apple based graphics computers. I tried to watch and understand what exactly it took to make a simple graphic, let's say a red circle with a slash through it, on their machine, and I almost passed out over the complexity of that software, and the gyrations needed to make a simple circle and then that 45 degree slash through it! Somebody later, gave me an old copy of Photoshop, and the instruction book...NICE! Not really! The instruction book looked like the New York City Phone book! It was over three inches thick! Must be easy.....Right? Piece of cake!
I had Essentials in the past, but found Corel more forgiving and easy to operate. But with Kelby lurking in the wings, there is always that queasy feeling in my gut that his motivation is not to make Elements fun, but to bait the user into purchasing Photoshop...There is just enough left out, in Elements, to force the issue. And as I also stated about RAW, it too is overkill...But Nikon/Canon will keep throwing out the "Jpeg is bad!" bait just to see if we will bite.
Now unless you are in the Mensa program for the mentally blessed, then knock yourself out and purchase Photoshop! I was just suggesting to that gentleman, that if all he did was tweek his photos, then he is an excellent photographer, and that Corell was to my knowledge, the best suggestion for his photography needs.
I used to use fly swatters for eliminating flies, but found that because they were so fast, I could not always hit them, so I decided to use my 12 gauge shotgun! It was noisy, but it worked! The only draw back was this...It took days to find the remains of the fly, and that hole!!!...If you get my drift. Ha Ha!
I never liked Kelby and his Photoshop Dynasty! Have you seen the price of his Photoshop RAG? He is as bad as George Gates and Microsoft! Both are poised for world domination and raking in as much money as possible, and we are at the mercy of their, greed and desire to fill their bank accounts, at our expense!
Long live Paintshop Pro! It ain't pretty, but the price is right, and I'm happy with it! It is only $24.00 for the last iteration! Beats $750.00 for the student discounted Photoshop software! And that NYC Phone Book sized instruction book! Wow!
Digiphot2
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