Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

I am not so passionate about this issue as I don't even own guns but do pay close attention to the our government's interpretation of the constitution...

I found this young girl to make one of the cogent and straight forward arguments against weapon bans that I have heard throughout the current debate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=L_-N9_tnWBo

DaveD10913

Welcome to The Peoples Republic of Maryland and Martin O'Mally's run for the White House.

Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert

Out of the mouths of Babes

tschmath Loc: Los Angeles

This poster (the picture, not the OP)is without a doubt the stupidest argument against gun safety there is.

Do you think laws against murder will stop murderers?
Do you think setting speed limits will eliminate speeders?
Do you think passing tax laws will eliminate tax cheats?

No one thinks the current laws will completely solve the problem of gun violence in this country. No one. But if we can protect peoples's second amendment rights while at the same time reducing the plague of gun violence, isn't it worth a try?

If people on the right would stop listening to the idiots in the NRA and realize that we are NOT after their guns, that there is no conspiracy to raid their homes, that the government is NOT an enemy, we might be able to get something done.

As with so much today, the right has not made a single policy suggestion to curb gun violence except to arm teachers. How do we keep people safe in movie theaters? How do we keep people safe in their front yards? How do we keep people safe from their spouses?

So keep your pistols. Every one of them. Keep your hunting rifles. Every one of them. But just as you have to take a vision test to drive a car, and a driving test to make sure you know how to use a car, let's make sure you're not a criminal. Let's make sure you know how to handle a gun. Let's make sure you're not mentally ill. Let's make sure that we minimize the damage you can do if you go over the edge. Let's make sure you can't kill a cop who's wearing a bulletproof jacket.

The government is not the enemy, there is no conspiracy against guns. For me, I just want to know my granddaughter is safe walking to school. Safe playing with her toys in the front yard. Safe when she goes to a football game on Friday night. Safe when her husband comes home drunk. Is that too much to ask?

There are proposed solutions out there to help accomplish this that do not limit the right to own guns. Except with the tired claim of "enforce existing laws", does any gun proponent have any suggestion as to how we solve the problem?

RichieC Loc: Adirondacks

So you want to pass more laws, and yet are tired of people saying we must enforce existing laws. Read that aloud so you can hear how absurd your stance is.

In every country that ever completely banned weapons, the first thing they had to do was find out who owned them and document them. That way they had a tidy list. Get it?

There are MANY politicians who indeed do want to take away all guns. They are beside themselves trying to figure out clever back handed ways o to achieve this. EXACTLY like they got Al Capone, a mass murderer and super crook.... on tax evasion. They are people like you who at the moment trust the government. Are completely confident that they can meet all our needs both for protection and well being, and now even promise to supply the "happiness" instead of guaranteeing the "pursuit" of it.

The truth is they can't... get that? They arrive in time to put a chalk outline around your body, ( they don;t even fo that anymore), they give out food stamps, and apparently cell phones. They don't give a rip about anybody in particular until vote time.

I've travelled all over this country, visited the largest cities, lived in downtown Pittsburgh for three years, and have never, ever, not even once, heard a shot in anger. I have many guns at home, and never thought about taking them with me...

I'll take an aptitude test for guns, take out insurance and register everything, when you do the same for 1st amendment rights, and every other amendment which are "RIGHTS"... because driving a car isn't a right, nor anything else they license and tax... they are privileges.



,

Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert

Every law abiding citizen needs to be armed .....

Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert

I'll take my chances protecting myself doc .....

FrumCA

And then outrageous stuff like this comes out of the mouths of some elected representatives!!

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/04/45243-democrat-congresswoman-sneers-at-senior-citizen-over-gun-rights-youd-probably-be-dead-anyway/

Fla Walt Loc: Delray Beach, Florida

So, is it alright to own a 50 cal machine gun? How about a mini-gun that fires 2000 rounds a minute. Maybe a howitzer. Should there be any kind of restrictions on gun ownership?

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Walt, maybe you missed the part that I am not a gun owner, even so I guess your question does ask just how far does the second amendment go.... Personally I can't answer that question, but the courts have already ruled that guns can be regulated, I am not so sure that I personally would agree with that ruling but then again it does seem reasonable that some sort of restrictions should apply, we can't have people running around with surface to air missiles now can we....

It is clear that the founders intent was that the American people would be able to defend themselves against a tyrannical government, it was expressed in the Federalist papers and elsewhere, so the question of limitations is somewhat interesting. Modern weaponry has advanced far beyond what the founders could have imagined that the whole notion of the American people rising up and taking their government back from tyrants is a little far fetched, but the first amendment still guarantees that we do not have to become sheeple... Assault weapons are not the biggest problem we have with guns... they make for the most horrific and emotionally devastating moments in our society and the gun debate, but by far and away they are responsible for a fraction of the loss of lives that handguns are... Sandy Hook, Aurora, Tuscan, VT, and others all rolled up together as terrible and horrifying as they were are not as devastating as what takes place in the streets of Chicago for the effected families who lose children almost daily on those streets... So, what are the answers... Like I said, I am not a gun owner and I am not as passionate about this argument as some... but I am very hesitant to trample on the constitution or its intent....

tschmath Loc: Los Angeles

You pose some interesting points. I just don't understand how limiting the size of a clip violates the Second Amendment. Gun rights folks tout the Founder's intent, but they only had single shot muskets in their world.

I have yet to hear a single suggestion from gun advocates on how to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. OK, they hate background checks. Then how do we do it? If there's a better way, I'm all for it. Can someone who's a gun advocate give me a suggestion? And don't spout the tired line about enforcing current law. Current law doesn't work. Give me something new, something that goes beyond what's currently being done.

Gun advocates even go so far as to oppose barring people on the terrorist watch list from owning guns. They're terrorists, they're not citizens, and gun advocates want to extend Second Amendment rights to them. I personally find that totally insane.

I can't quote the exact case, but the Supreme Court has ruled that while guns cannot be totally banned, like they tried to do in DC a few years ago, they can be regulated. Doesn't that suggest that all of the proposed changes would be constitutional?

Here's my suggestion: let's pass assault weapons bans, magazine limits, and background checks, and let the NRA immediately file a lawsuit in federal court challenging it. Let's get this in front of the Supreme Court as soon as possible so that we can stop jawing back and forth and settle it once and for all. If it's unconstitutional, let's go back to square one together and come up with a way to drastically reduce gun violence in this country.

BigBear Loc: Northern CT

It doesn't matter what you do or how you do it there will always be someone out there who will get through undetected until after they actually do something to draw attention.
You can do nothing about it !!! And it's the rest of the law abiding world that is being penalized because of it.

tschmath Loc: Los Angeles

Again, this is a really stupid argument. Because we can't eliminate gun violence completely, we should do nothing? How many gun deaths are there every year, 20,000 or something like that? If we could reduce that to 1,000 per year, we shouldn't do anything? We haven't eliminated auto deaths, but we sure have reduced the numbers. There are a whole lot more families who celebrate holidays together because we made cars safer. Why can't we do the same for guns?

To suggest doing nothing because we can't do everything is just plain stupid. Sorry for the strong language, but this is the most ridiculous argument that gun advocates make. I can understand second amendment arguments, but to suggest doing nothing is idiotic.

Here's question for gun owners. It's a purely hypothetical one. If you knew that by going through a 5 minute background check that you would save your child's life, would you do it? Would you be willing to give up that tiny piece of your "liberty" or your "freedom" to save your child's life? If your answer is yes, then why is your child's life more valuable than the life of the child in a school in Connecticut or Montana or New Jersey?

BigBear Loc: Northern CT

Everything you came up with is hypothetical because none of it has anything to do with saving lives.
It all has to do with making you feel good for a while until it happens again. Then what are you going to want to do ??

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Tschmath, I probably used to be a bigger gun control freak than you are... I absolutely wanted guns out of our society, but then I realized the impossibility of that idea... I don't know what the answers are... Expanding background checks could be part of the solution, the government should be able to put a stop to some guy purchasing 50 Bushmasters in a single year as this is obviously a straw purchaser yet we saw something like this in the Fast and Furious fiasco... Gun shows also present a problem where a large percentage of the transactions are done by private individuals and we can reasonably suspect that this is one of the ways that criminals are able to purchase guns... Were I a gun owner I would have some expectation of being able to give my guns to family members or friends without going through the process of background checks, but maybe that I am not being reasonable, maybe we should have to go through the process if it would really keep more people safe, I do question how far the government will go in keeping guns out of the hands of different people... say someone who in a heated moment became involved in a pushing match who other than that one heated moment has had no other incident in his life and gets charged with assault and battery.... maybe the other person actually started the altercation and even though no punches were thrown does this person have to give up his guns or his right to own guns? I don't pretend to know the answers Tschmath, but I do tend to believe that the government tends to over fix things even though those fixes often don't achieve the original intent of the legislation when the bill started its way through some committee somewhere... It also seems to me that we spend a lot of time debating legislation that we know nothing about.... I don't think that we can even evaluate the legislation that is being currently considered as it is not yet written... somehow I think that there will be things found in the eventual bill that nobody is talking about.

You may not like this, but more and more I see our country becoming a more dangerous place, and although I have never been a gun owner that does not mean that I never will be and I do not want our government between me and my right to defend my home and personal safety... I was raised with the belief that I own nothing that is worth a human life... but it seems to me the bad guys these days are not so respectful of their victims lives....

I have no answers Tschmath, only questions.