SteveR Loc: Michigan

In "The Impossibility of Conservatism," PNagy's broad swipe at conservative values further polarizes the conservative and liberal camps in America. It is almost as if he would stamp out conservatism. This would be a dangerous thing to do, for what would it leave us with? It would give us liberalism run amok, with nothing to stop it. It would leave us with Socialism, and perhaps Fascism. It is why the United States has a two party system and why it has worked so well. The Democrats through the years seem to have provided the heart of America and with it programs like Social Security, S.S.I., and bills like the A.D.A. Would Republicans have come up with them? I don't know. However, Republicans have typically been more economic minded....the conservatives, so to speak. In the past, this two party system worked well, especially when the two parties could work well together and compromise. There were moderate Republicans and conservative Democrats, and Presidents who could talk to both parties. Unfortunately, politics have become more divisive lately and the two parties don't work so well together. However, the answer is not to wipe out conservatism. Our two party system works. It has made America great. What we need is less divisiveness, at least in the area of budgetary concerns. Republicans were never against feeding and providing for the poor, so we should not be painted with those kind of brush strokes.

I have submitted this as a separate thread because I think that it is important for us to see who we are as Americans. We have a multitude of different viewpoints and expressing them through our two party system has made us a great country. We need both conservatives and liberals. Don't listen to divisive rants like Nagy's. We don't need them.

BW326 Loc: Boynton Beach, Florida

Excellent submission SteveR. We are a large enough group (UHH-ers) that we undoubtably have political perspectives from both ends that might disagree, but they would be in the minority.

I'm an optimist in that I believe if we suddenly lost every conservative... the Left would eventually morph into a bell-curve representation of our current system.

If we suddenly lost every liberal... the Right would eventually morph into a bell-curve representation of our current system.

Only the most extreme from both political ends of the spectrum trully believes that the majority want a pure socialism or a pure, captailistic, winner-take-all society.

But you did a better job of saying it than I did.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

TrainNut Loc: Ridin' the rails

I agree. Excellent submission SteveR. I f people would learn how to think for them selves this would be a better country. Some of us old people have had to learn that and if others would listed they would be better off.Both sides have good ideas and both can be really stupid at times. when we take the best ideas and work to make them better we will once again become a great country. I don't believe we are right now.

:thumbup: On the post
:thumbdown: On not working together.

rcirr Loc: Gilbert, Arizona

Ok...time for me to show what a mean conservative I am. Your two examples of great things from the liberals ..Social Security and ADA are not very good. S.S was passable at best when it was written and has gotten worse and worse as Congress has messed around with it. The worst part was not creating a system that kept the clowns in Washington from spending the money. Now it's going broke. That doesn't seem like such a great plan to me. The idea was good but the execution was very poor. You also mentioned the ADA. The ADA has caused a huge amout of expense to government and businesses alike. There are much more effecient ways to provide a lot of the benefits provided by the ADA. If it were done right, the costs would have been much less and the benefits much greater. The problem isn't Democrats VS Republicans..it's the way business is done in Washington. It's politics being the determining factor instead of results. It's government by controlling the emotions of the electorate instead trying to truly address the problems.
The part that drives me the most crazy is this...conservative policies work the best for almost any problem but the results are always distorted by politics. For example...you can keep spending more and more on big government and have the government run your entire life...a liberal view. This results in crushing debt, massive unemployment and eventually a collapse of the monetary system. The concervative policy is to balance the budget and reduce regulation to a reasonable level. This results in explosive growth, unemployment dropping, the debt slowly being paid and more opportunity for everyone!
So what comes out in the press? Lowering how much we increase the budget by less than 3% is draconian and will cause the end of the world. Please understand...no one on either side of the aisle is talking about cutting one penny. The are talking about incresasing the budget a little less! We can't do that? That's politics stopping a simple fix to a huge problem!

SteveR Loc: Michigan

rcirr...Thanks for your response. I do think that you're over conservative on these issues, however. Social Security is needed. Whether it's abused is another question. I disagree, too, with your thoughts on the ADA. How we treat our handicapped speaks about who we are as a society. I am the parent of two profoundly deaf daughters, one born in 77 and the other in 82. They benefitted from both the ADA and other legislation that provided education and interpreters for them from birth on. Both now have Masters degrees (my oldest received her B.S. from the University of Michigan in Scientific Illustration) and are deaf ed teachers themselves. Thank goodness for some of the progressive thinkers that provided the education and interpreters for them that made it possible for them to succeed. Actually, I don't consider them as liberals, I just consider them to be caring people. Thank goodness.

Danilo Loc: Las Vegas

Thank you for starting this topic, Steve! I, also, think we need less divisiveness and a more unified effort toward common goals. The political climate in recent years has certainly been one of dividing people into separate clashing entities, not conducive of any productive results.
However, the word compromise does not sit well with me. I would only use the word compromise if it's preceded by the word judicious. If the question were: Do we burn down the barn with the livestock inside? I would not want to compromise and burn down half the barn.
In the matter of Social Security, the ADA, and various humanitarian efforts, we just have to bear in mind the government has proven, time and time again, its inability to administer programs efficiently and effectively. Great ideas need great execution, and our government falls hopelessly short in this department.

Penny MG Loc: Fresno, Texas

Kudos to all the post. Now if we could come up with a plan to get the parties to work together again instead of being at each other's throats, then 1/2 the battle would be won.

Twardlow Loc: Arkansas

Wouldn't be Socialism (learn the definition). We already have the fascism.

Remember, the goal is truth as we are given to understand it. Labels are meaningless.

We all tend to view through a distorted lens. Keeping a clear and independent mind is the most difficult assignment we have. Most don't even try.

Just my thoughts...

gasmandon Loc: Bentleyville, PA

Nonsense!!!!!! Typical right wing-nut fear mongering!

Croce Loc: Earth

Hi Steve,
In order to understand anything which Peter Nagy puts on this forum it would serve you well to look at some of his past posts and mentions of his place on this planet. Nagy I would venture to say, has never been very successful at anything and lives in the bottom half of the middle class economic strata in our country. He is I believe, although with no concrete proof, a bitter person who to a great extent disdains his station and blames the achievers (read oppressors in the mind of Nagy) His one accomplishment seems to be the possession of a broad spectrum vocabulary with which to express his usually arcane and poorly formed opinions. I picture Nagy making speeches to himself in the mirror before posting, seeking more to impress himself than any audience he may acquire. Though not a narcissist or arrogant, nor mean spirited, he is aloof, I am sorry to say and embittered toward any who suggest they prefer to be a self sufficient scrambler in an arena which offers a tough and competitive opportunity for accomplishment and wealth, rather than a member of a commune where all share equally. Nagy is not for seeking the higher ground but rather a level ground. A place where mediocrity is the benchmark for excellence. Nagy really does not merit a disputed or argued counter opinion. Few take him seriously. Your retort however was very well stated although it puzzles me as to why anyone would bother to answer someone who posted an open inquiry and then proceeded to argue against those who answered. Nagy is a poseur. He seeks to edify himself. That's all. Why bother. He was baiting. Why take the bait?

SteveR Loc: Michigan

Croce...I particularly like your line about Nagy seeking a place where mediocrity is the benchmark for excellence. He claims to have been a teacher. If you view his thread, he has the need to intellectually defend against each and every thought and post. Imagine how this would go over in an educational setting.

Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert

Hey Doc ..... I was just gonna say that doc ..... ha,ha,ha,ha,

..... and he doesn't even edify well doc .....

..... and besides he doesn't know what he's talkin about either doc .....

BigBear Loc: Northern CT

That would be nice but they expect us to give up on our principles, which I refuse to do because someone has to pay for their ignorance.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

I do agree with you on that BigBear. It seems like we were much closer as a people in the 50's and 60's. We've become much more polarized since then. Some of it can't be helped, but one are we should work together on is economics and budget.

BigBear Loc: Northern CT

What budget ??