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Jan 13, 2017 07:52:19   #
the ideal extension tube length depends on the lens you use and the magnification you want. This link explains how to calculate magnification using your lens focal length and the extensikno tube you are using ...

http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/5603/how-can-i-calculate-what-the-effect-of-an-extension-tube-will-be

And since that may raise other questions too here is a link that talks about all the macro gear that's generally used and available ...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/macro-photography-gear-lenses-extension-tubes-and-filters

I hope this helps a bit. Good Luck!!
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Jan 12, 2017 18:37:06   #
Many years ago I was an international leader of some indigenous people. During that life there was a dam being built in one of their regions that caused a lot of furor. Eventually I flew there to learn exactly what was going on and then make recommendations accordingly.

What fascinated me, and disturbed me, was that prior to my departure I was under enormous pressure from indigenous people living in the States to forget the fact finding and just help the locals stop the dam because that was best for them. I resisted that but the pressure never stopped. To my surprise and consternation, it seems the overseas folks felt they knew better than their families back home what was best for them. It was the wrong attitude. The overseas folks didn't live there any more nor did they understand the issues. Despite that they were ready to go to war to stop the dam.

When I met with the elders in the affected communities I was not surprised by their reaction. They told me that they do wish the dam would go away but at the same time they do understand how badly the country needs the resulting power and how many people will be helped in the process. Add to that, contrary to the demonstrators, it wasn't twelve thousand people who would be inundated, it was only five familes and they simply had to move up the mountain ninety meters.

So what does this have to do with filters? The vitriolic argiments in favour of, and against, filters remind me of the pressures that had been put on me. It reminds me that far too many people seem to feel that they know best even when what's best is different from the beliefs and values of those they are trying to help. What I tried to preach to all of the overseas folks after the mission was that if they want to be responsible they should advise their families at home about the pros and cons of whatever it is that is causing problems, and then step back and let them decide for themselves what's best.

Alas that never happened, those on this side of the pond still believed they know better and they still are willing to go to war to drive home their points. Let's be realistic folks, let's allow the ones who ask the questions to decide for themselves what choice to make and let's accept that choice and get on to debate something else instead. Oh and the dam? It did get built, the five affected families moved up ninety metres, no one was inundated or screwed in the process. It turned out that the local people really did know what they felt was best for them and their people. Now let's learn from this. Please?
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Jan 10, 2017 18:56:46   #
whitewolfowner wrote:
Yes, you are right. It's the same thing with lens cases; in the days of old, a good telephoto lens came with a quality hard case which protected it, even from a hard blow. Good example of this would be in a dug out during a baseball game. Those hard cases would protect the lens even from a batted or thrown baseball that hits the case. Today, you can only get a soft case and in the same situation, the lens would be damaged or destroyed. Guess manufacturers have figured this out too and find they sell more lenses when the first one gets destroyed and the photographer is forced to re-buy it to replace the broken one. Many items sold out there for "protection" are nothing more than a false security and an accident waiting to happen.
Yes, you are right. It's the same thing with lens... (show quote)



I forgot about the hard cases, that too was wonderful protection.

But I guess from a capitalistic point of view these are bad. Removing them saved the manufacturers some money which they kept and they made more later selling the same lenses again when they broke.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:39:47   #
In my film days I had a wonderful protection for my lenses, a metal screw on lens cap. I dropped a lens with that on it one time and there was absolutely no damage at all.

I don't know if they still exist and they were of course a pain to screw on and off but they were realy the best protection.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:06:39   #
pendennis wrote:
In a perfect world, your thesis may have some validity. However, in the real world, involving real people, your "sustainability" models just don't work.

First, people have neither the time, nor the inclination, to do reams of research on each and every product which they consume. And the folks who espouse this, don't have the expertise, either.

Capitalism is effective because of the division of labor, folks becoming more specialized in their labor. Failure to specialize means the end of technological advance, ergo, the end of scientific advancement. Technology always precedes science.

Alternative energy sources, bio- and solar, are not sustainable. In solar, there has to be some manner of energy storage for the periods which there is no sunlight. That's battery, and it means that the energy has to be converted from DC to AC for transmission and usage. Bio fuels are hugely inefficient. The cost of production is double the cost to produce the crop. And fuels like ethanol are corrosive, even to stainless steel. Corn is a food, and the reduction in available land to produce food, causes a huge financial hardship on the poor, who have to pay more just to subsist.

The most economical means of energy production is through oil, coal, and nuclear. Oil reserves are huge, and even at current estimates of usage, will last for over 100 years. Coal is the original renewable energy source. It was created 350 million years ago through photosynthesis, and in its most economical usage, provides cheap energy to millions. In fact, its usage to the most poor of countries, would enable them to raise the standard of living and improve their economic lives. Nuclear is the most economical, and with the exception of the stupidity of the Soviet Union, has been safe beyond any other energy source. (Three Mile Island's problem was the result of human error, ignoring the reactor's warnings)

The costs of materials, whether steel, plastics, textiles, are inelastic in economic terms. Their costs as commodities on the world markets are governed there. If you want to sell iron ore or oil, you can't sell for less than the market price very long. Labor costs are also inelastic in any particular country because of unions, labor laws, etc. Labor laws in France do not translate to labor laws in South Africa. In the total cost of goods sold, indirect costs are widely variable depending on where the goods are produced; for the same reasons as labor.

Economic development must be evolutionary, as is life itself. An economic group can't skip from Step B, to Step E, and not pay a dear price. Developing countries must build infrastructure, and at times the most simplistic of means. Road, sanitary facilities, food markets, and other parts just can't be skipped.
In a perfect world, your thesis may have some vali... (show quote)


Good points. I just wish you were wrong but I suspect you aren't.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:05:01   #
BIG ROB wrote:
Not regarding any one particular post...but this sentiment of "Oh! We must save the diminishing "Local Photography Stores," is so very corny, and carried way too far, by some nostalgic "bleeding hearts". We live in a real world which progresses in accord to the facts of life. I find it hard to believe that so many people value a "relationship" with a man, who sells camera's for a living, and provides you, with "his opinion," of what is the "best gear" for You, to purchase. I spend many weeks, doing extensive research,
on the internet, reading many test and evaluative reviews, on all suitable equipment, prior to narrowing my selection down, item by item, to the unit which is best suited for my own purposes. I couldn't imagine, taking the opinion of a man, who works in a retail store, and basing my purchase, on what he has to say; let alone, "building up a long term relationship, with that one individual." That sounds like something for people who are insecure and are unable to make sound decisions on their own. Further, to pay many dollars, sales tax, on an expensive item, when you don't have to, is foolishness; it shows that you are personally addicted to your fancy. For myself, a store such as B&H meets all of my needs, in every way. If you need to handle the equipment prior to purchasing it, travel to B&H, or go to one of the many "public chain stores" that are set-up to permit, allow, and enable any person, from off of the street, to come in, and to handle their merchandise, which they have placed out onto display, for "John Q. Public" to pick up and to play with, even if, he has no intention, of ever purchasing it. Such a store, for example: "Best Buy." Also, it would be a very nice thing if "Local Camera Stores" were able to flourish today, but unfortunately due to our economy and way of life, that is not the case, and as time goes by they will become a rarity. This is simply my own opinion...Have a nice day.
This is in many ways a sad thing, I admit, but it is a reality that we must live with; for we have no choice in the matter.
Not regarding any one particular post...but this s... (show quote)


That's quite a dissertation. I won't argue your points. There are some who argue that extinction is a good thing not a bad thing. Perhaps they are right. But I also feel sorry for you. Spending enormous amounts of time researching on the internet is a questionable ecercise since it is not possible to be sure that everything you are told is actually true and there is no simple reliable method to verify the alleged facts that are provided. I guess you don't bother to consult a doctor either, you just research your symptoms on the internet believing all you read and then order the drugs you think you need. I just hope you never catch a bug that requires instant treatment, you'd not survive it.

Finally, I guess you're the kind who never asks a friend for advice to solve a vexing issue. After all the friend can only express an opinion too. So there's no point arguing this point either. I will say however that I've always found it more expedient and effective to seek advice from friends and those I trust and respect and that includes camera stores I've patronized and known. That's not to say I don't do research too, it's just to say that I prefer the wisdom of experience to advise me sometimes.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:52:09   #
"I see, a scratch is OK and will not affect the image, but a filter will. Where di you get your knowledge from; looney tune land?"

Actually ... the writer is correct. Where did you study physics, back in kindergarten?

Front lens elements often accumulate all kinds of stuff like dust particles, hair, other organic material particularly on a windy day and yet if you look through the view finder it looks like you have a completely clear lens. The same happens with a scratch, a mild one just disappears. It has to do with the optical nature of the lens. The front element is huge compared to one at the end of the lens and as a result an imperfection or even an air bubble isn't noticable because it's a tiny proportion of the entire image. By the time the light works it's way to the back it's been compressed ever more making the imperfection tiny.

On the other hand, at the back of the lens where all the light is now concentrated heading to the sensor, the smallest particle can become visible ruining the picture because, unlike at the front, a dust spec at the back actually blocks the fine detail that lens has just created for you.

As to a filter, that's raised from the lens element which means that an imperfection in the filter will have a different effect on the light stream as it gets focused. The filter is also more prone to flare because it is raised above the front lens element whereas some dust or even a scratch on the surface of the lens element is almost invisible in most cases.

But you don't have to believe us. Put a thumb print on the front of one of your lenses or maybe a few specs of dust, and then take a picture of something, you'll find you won't notice the imperfection at all.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:32:42   #
bdk wrote:
No matter where I point my camera the lightening is in another area Ive never gotten a good pic.... They make a lightening trigger for cameras that triggers the camera. I was going to buy one but
I really dont need it. Im NOt having any GAS pains so....



Whenever I do a talk about macro photography of insects I always say to sit comfortably and to watch your subject. Then decide where the subject will go next and let it come to you. That's really good advice generally but ... I know all to well too that whatever place I choose regardless of my convictions and experience, the bug will never land on that spot, at least it often seems like that. Thankfully though, the issue is unreliable, being patient enough eventually the subject does some to you.

It's that way with lightning too. The problem is that in mild thunder storms where you get a bolt or two once in a while you do have to take a chance and hope that you'll hit it right. But if it is a severe thunder storm with a lot or lightning at the same time with short intervals betwen new bolts of lightning, odds are that no matter where you point the camera you'll get a hit. In the end though it's always an exercise of patience along with a bit of luck.

One other tip I can share though, I usually use my ball head and position the camera to get the horizon and the clouds. Once I'm set up I leave the horizontal direction loose so I can spin the camera quickly to where the bolt is happening. Lightning lasts longer than a second or two usually so if you see the bolt it's sometimes possible to swing the camera around towards the lightning and depress the remote as you come to it. If you do that using a 24 mm lens of even something shorter it becomes simpler to make that happen. Good Luck!
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Jan 10, 2017 12:52:21   #
This is a no win argument. It's like house insurance. Many people automatically buy insurance for the contents of their apartments and/or for the structure of their homes. Some of them end up with a break in or a fire and the insurance company takes care of it all. Other people to not get insurance for their homes and in the process save a pile of money. Some of them are lucky by not having a fire or a break in but others to get broken into or burned to the ground. They then were not lucky and they pay for it dearly.

It's not for us to say what is best. You are welcome to say I would prefer you took insurance out or you can say in my opinion insurace is a waste of money. You can also offer your rationale for the recommendation. But after that let it go, it's really up to the individual to make the decision and to take the risk. All we can do is with them luck.
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Jan 10, 2017 09:42:39   #
SusanFromVermont wrote:
The problem with saving camera stores is in some ways similar to the problem of saving a particular variety of birds etc. The wild critter in question depends on how we treat their environment, but a lot of habitats are endangered by behaviors of humans that enter into that area. No matter how much we as individuals shop locally, we cannot control where our neighbors shop. And local businesses DEPEND on local shoppers. Apparently the survivors have maintained such a high level of quality in their business practices and their customer service that people continue to shop there and encourage others to check it out. Another aspect to this survival is adaptation. Just like wildlife, people and businesses have to adapt to a changing environment. As a result of adapting, brick and mortar stores like B&H and Adorama have become well-known and trusted throughout the photography community, no matter where they are located. Not every store can reach this level, but even if they only become "famous" in their own region, that could go a long way toward ensuring survival!
The problem with saving camera stores is in some w... (show quote)


You raise compelling points that can't be argued. You also end with a bit of hope.

"B&H and Adorama have become well-known and trusted throughout the photography community, no matter where they are located. Not every store can reach this level, but even if they only become "famous" in their own region, that could go a long way toward ensuring survival"

It may be possible for them to also eventually open a few local stores depending on how well they do online but as you said too, that depends on the environment. I guess we wait and see and in the meantime treasure the stores we still have.
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Jan 10, 2017 08:47:33   #
PaulB wrote:
David McKay in his book "Photography Demystified" suggested that using filters, except in rare circumstances, isn't a good idea. He suggests that putting a $20 or $30 filter on a $2000 lens undermines the quality of the lens. It does seem make sense. He says that using a lens hood will protect the glass from damage and not degrade image quality. Any comments from the "hogs"? Are there high quality filters that work without degrading images made with high end lenses?


The glass in a lens is designed to handle light according to what people expect regardless of how the light enters the lens. The moment you place a filter on the front, any filter of any quality, you upset the light path and leave yourself open to flair which can be quite destructive in a picture. If you place a lens hood on the front of the lens that has no adverse effect at all, in fact the lens and the hood were designed for each other and the hood does offer a degree of protection too.

Personally I do not use filters on my lenses at all. The only exception is the circular polarizer which I sometimes use for effect. But once I've done the picture it comes off again.
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Jan 10, 2017 08:18:36   #
fdoyle3 wrote:
Just about all of the local camera dealers have gone out of business and most of them don't carry professional type of equipment. You can't go wrong with Adorama or B&H



Yes, many if not most of the local retailers have gone by way of the dodo bird. But some still survive. If we support them it will become clear that a photo store might actually still be a viable business model and in time there may be new stores opening up to fill the gap created by the ones that closed. But if we just all flock online the stores that are left will also eventually close and the message left on the street is to not bother opening a store because you can't make money that way.

On the other hand business is a matter of survival of the fitest and if that means some less fit organizations have to go extinct perhaps that's best for the world. After all who cares if a particularl bird or fish or animal disappears from the surface of the planet? If you are one of those, online is certainly the way to go and the extinction of the camera store should be celebrated. But if you do feel there is some value to a store it's time to take action before it's too late assuming it's not already too late.
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Jan 10, 2017 08:09:18   #
What can we do? Maybe nothing or maybe a great deal. It's not just the wage gap that separates prices, it's the sustainable development gap, it's the clean air and environment gap, it's the climate change gap, it's the worker benefits and working conditions gap too. Clearly those industries who are concerned about such things and thus try to manufacture in a manner consistent with saving the planet and their workers, they wil incur higher costs regardless of where they manufacture. Sure Chinese workers work for less than North American workers, but the country is only starting to take an interest in climate change, sustainability, clean air. Once they start to worry about this and do something about it their product costs will start to mirror our own too. Nations who are currently on the list of nice cheap places to manufacture don't yet have planet friendly legislation in place. Later when their own people get fed up with this, they stop being manufacturing friendly.

What we can do is perhaps accelerate this process of levelling the cost of goods. Don't simply ask about the price, it's going to be attractive of course. Ask about sustainability, ask about pollution, ask about toxins in rivers and lakes, ask about whether workers have healthcare, ask about working conditions for workers, ask about what we hold dear here in terms of protecting our society and our workers and our planet. If you don't like the answers don't buy the product. If the western world would adopt that kind of an attitude you'd find things changing quickly because the manufacturers would not have a market to sell to. That's what we can all do though I'll admit it's hard and controversial too. But what's the choice? To not do it maintains the status quo and we already know that's not the solution.
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Jan 9, 2017 18:08:58   #
therwol wrote:
I've been thinking about this through these many posts. Big mail order stores are run by multimillionaires who pay their employees salaries (and possibly commission.) Local businesses are more likely to be owned by real people who are living their dream to own a business, who are invested in their community. We are in an era where that dream has become impossible for many people, no matter what they are trying to sell to make a living. It could be shoes. Maybe we'll never go back to a time before the internet, when small retail stores were the norm in every community. I don't suggest we have to live in the past. Things are the way they are. I would just like to see people support local businesses when they have a choice. I do it as much as I can.
I've been thinking about this through these many p... (show quote)


Yes, that is exactly the point I've been trying to make in my posts on this subject. When I was in grade school everything was closed Sundays. One Sunday we blew a main fuse in the house. So we called the local hardware store. The owner lived upstairs. He told us to come to the back door in the laneway and he'd sell us the fuse we need and he did. I never forgot that. Could you call a Lowes or a Home Depot in the off hours and get some help? I doubt it. We save a lot of money from their pricing but at the same time we get nothing in return as a rule. They're into mass merchandizing not into building personal relationships with their customers.

When I started in photography I went to a little store on our main street called Jerry's. It was owned and run by three guys. They knew me by name, they knew what I liked to photograph and how I tended to want quality stuff and often they also offered an aggressive price. I gave Jerry's my business for about twenty five years but alas they went out of business leaving me desperate for a new relationship. By then we had a huge camera store that was more like a corporation and it offered better pricing which is what killed Jerry's.

It took me five years to finally find another one, Vistek. This wasn't a little privately owned company but I did manage to get a good relationship again and this endured for fifteen years when my favourite sales person retired. Now I'm on the hunt for another little store but alas there are very few left now. I think that's sad.

It also makes me wonder what this is costing me. I don't know how much money I saved by having both stores advise me what I should be buying instead of what I wanted to buy. I suspect I probably saved a lot and perhaps a lot more than I've saved from the online retailers. I wonder what I am also paying taxes. As we lose the little camera stores and many other mom and pop stores we lose the relatinships and the expertise these people had which helped us grow in our passion for photography. And these people still need to be employed. How much of my taxes are going to paying unemployment insurance, welfare, retraining and many other programs to try to get these people employed in a field they were never trained for? Do we really save money buying online or do we lose money when the entire impact is considered? I don't have an answer to that question. It's also like the jobs lost to overseas. The companies save a bundle of labour costs and we get a break on the cost of our products but what does it cost to help the people who have been displaced? When we manage to get a cheap product from Korea or Japan of China, are we really getting a bargain at all? It's an interesting question that no one seems to be asking.
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Jan 9, 2017 17:48:28   #
kenArchi wrote:
So why are we complaining about loosing jobs to China? I see everyone working here. And Buying Chinese goods.


We are complaining about losing jobs to China because we are. But that's only the current trend. It started with Japan, then Korea, then Thailand, the plants get rebuilt wherever the labour rates are the cheapest. As a result China is actually in decline, their competition is now India and Bangladesh. And of course those two countries will only be the manufacturers for a few years as well until a new third world country opens up so that the west can rebuild its plants there.

Why are we complaining? Because that's our fault though it seems like most complainers don't realize this. The businesses simply do what businesses always do all over the world, they are looking for ways to cut costs and to be competitive. We drive them there by demanding ever lower prices and of course often in demanding this we don't just lose more jobs to some other country we often also lose quality in the zeal to make things cheaper.

I wonder sometimes as well if we actually do save money. Moving our manufacturing overseas saves cost and thus saves us money on the things we buy. But it also costs the country welfare payments and unemployment payments and retraining costs and many other things and these have to be paid through taxes. So while you're saving money on perhaps a hundred dollars on your next camera, you're also paying a lot of taxes perhaps two or three hundred dollars to subsidize all of the unemployed. Is that really a bargain? Wouldn't it be cheaper to pay a bit more and have the product manufactured locally in the country?

It's like that other thread too concerning buying online versus from a retailer. A large number of respondents go online because it's cheaper but then years later they are also the first to cry about the disappearance of camera stores they used to go to for advice and for an opportunity to try their options. When it comes to saving a few dollars very few people actually pause to ask the broader question of what's best for our society and also for ourselves when you take everything into account instead of only the price.
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