I like Dawkins' relating religion to a meme. A meme is the vehicle, analogous to genes, for carrying culture and cultural ideas.
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As an enthusiastic Darwinian, I have been dissatisfied with explanations that my fellow-enthusiasts have offered for human behaviour. They have tried to look for 'biological advantages' in various attributes of human civilization. For instance, tribal religion has been seen as a mechanism for solidifying group identity, valuable for a pack-hunting species whose individuals rely on cooperation to catch large and fast prey. Frequently the evolutionary preconception in terms of which such theories are framed is implicitly group-selectionist, but it is possible to rephrase the theories in terms of orthodox gene selection.
As an enthusiastic Darwinian, I have been dissatis... (
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Richard Dawkins,
The Selfish Gene
MisterWilson wrote:
Luke 10 ....
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luke 10 .... br br 25 And there shall be signs in... (
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Again? Didn't we have two Raptures just last year? Happening so often I'm not sure what to wear...
wpromine wrote:
It is simply not true to say that all things are equally possible, nor is your reading of what I said; to wit-- your estimate as to all the facts we DO NOT know and in that number is there a probability that God exists?
However, your statement about Santa Clause suggests this is no longer a discussion you care to continue.
All good wishes.
Perhaps you should start supporting your assertions rather than simply making them. How do you know it's not true for all things to be equally probable? That is in direct contravention to the Everett Many Worlds interpretation of quantum theory. Simply stated, everything that can happen, will happen. Just not in the same universe.
So there will exist an infinite number of universes in which god exists, an infinite number in which allah exists, an infinite number in which Santa Claus exists.
Let me suggest David Deutsch's
The Beginning of Infinity to introduce you to some of the fascinating conclusions the math is taking us.
Strangely enough, if you put "passed at least 20 military buses carrying soldiers" into Google, you get almost 1000 hits. So much for a private letter...
Let's all recall the fire bombing of the Saint Michel theater in France by fundamentalist Christiansofo protest Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ.. The film was showing at the time and several people were severely burned.
The difference between that incident and what's going on over this recent film is quantitative and not qualitative.
Loaded up Ubuntu a couple years ago and it looked great... Until I actually wanted to do something useful with the computer.
I watch until a truck drives over the bridge. It's called empiricism.
Faith is closing your eyes, stepping out over a canyon and hoping someone built a bridge at that spot.
wpromine wrote:
I did not intend to imply that 'complexity'and 'falling into place' were simultaneous events, though I can see why one may assume that given the way it was written. As I said, I don't care how it all was accomplished or how long it took, the fact is that the universe is Very complex. The structure and timing from the largest expanse to the small atom follow a intricate 'dance' which if disrupted to an infinitesimal degree no longer exist in that state. That suggest to me intelligent design. If it doesn't to you then you have more 'faith' than I that it came together by accident or probilities.
I did not intend to imply that 'complexity'and 'fa... (
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You are talking about the fine tuning of the universe which argues the whole universe is, as it is, so that we can exist.
That's about the ultimate expression of narcissism, dontcha think?
But, go ahead and support your unstated assumption that the universe can only be as it is and have life evolve in it. And while you're working on that, what do you think of the idea that an infinite number of universes exist?
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Question: of all the information which exists about the Universe,what percentage would you think man has discovered in every discipline of math and science in the history of mankind? Would you say 90%,50%,25%,10%? Let's be generous and guess 25%. Of the remaining 75%of these unknowns, what are the probability that not one is the probability there is a God?
Exactly the same probability that there are millions of gods, or no god, or any other "what are the chances" you can posit. What is the probability that Santa Claus exists?
ole sarg wrote:
Christians who carried out war on each other were not Christians. You are arguing that they were christians. Or, they were not your kind of Christian as you define one.
In fact, the Christians who were killing each other, each thought they were Christians as they defined the term.
It called the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.
wpromine wrote:
I think you guys are missing the point, at least my point. It requires faith to believe in God. We all exhibit 'faith' every day. Faith that the bridge won't fall(incidently, a recent inspection, as history has proved, does not insure that a bridge is structurally sound) It is prior experience that the bridge has always supported you that allows you to cross it without thought that it will this time also.--- ie: you have 'faith' whether you are aware of it or not. We all have 'faith' that the automobile which will pass you in seconds at a closing speed of 120 to 160 miles per hour will duplicate your driving skill and miss you by 5 or 6 feet. Since there is anothers' skill is involved, there is no inspection or scientific method that can reassure you that your assumption is correct. You assume by' faith' from previous experience' that your life will not end in seconds.
No, we can not prove God, but then if we could, He would not be God, for we would be as intelligent as He. Oscam's Razor comes to mind -- ' The simplest explanation is most often the correct one'. It takes more faith that there is no intelligent design than to think the universe, in all it's complexity, 'fell into place'with perfect timing and percision.
What DOESN'T bother me is how He did it. Seven days or billions of years --- 'Adam and eve' or evolution. Either way it was, to me, an uncomprehensibly awsome happening!
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Nope... It's probabilities. Define "complexity" and you are aware that no one claims it all fell into place with perfect timing and precision.
What "prior experience" supports your faith in god?
Does your machine boot? Do you have the original XP disk from which you can run the repair utility?
Never heard of the 9th! Can such musical ignorance exist?
I don't think there is no one above you, Larry. Why do you make that claim?
We had a telephone installer lie about her attempts to install lines to our new home. She reported she had come to the premises and was unable to get access because no one was home.
Unfortunately for her, my wife, the moving company and a bunch of friends were all here at the time she said she was at our place. Doubly unfortunate for her, I was a manager for the same phone company and had my NVP register a formal complain with her NVP.
It wasn't the first time she had done this and the problem was she didn't like splicing in the middle of a drop between two telephone poles. Not sure where she ended up, but she never lied to BellSouth customers again.
Her services were terminated.
Not completely foreign...
"How to avoid or remove Mac Defender malware"
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4650
"New Trojan Backdoor Malware Targets Mac OS X And Linux, Steals Passwords And Keystrokes"
"Malware on Macs: why you should care
Opinion: Macs don't get viruses? Flashback proved that wrong"
"New Mac malware spies on you via Adium, Firefox, Safari, Skype"
"Mac users were once relatively insulated from malware attacks, if only because their OS platform didnt attract the attention of criminals. But now a spike in security threats is making it clear that the bad guys are no longer ignoring Apples OS X.
The latest Mac security threat, a variant of the LuckyCat attack, takes advantage of an exploit in Microsoft Word documents, giving a remote attacker the ability to plunder infected systems, and steal data by hand. "
Welcome to the monkey house, Mr. Mac User
Gnslngr wrote:
LARRYR. wrote:
Why else, would he give some one like your self such a large
head, with out anything in it. He must have a good reason.
You've given me a good laugh today. Someone who believes in an invisible man in the sky; who pretends there is a big billowy man that's running his miserable life and who is so detached from reason that he insults people even though the make-believe deity he pretends is real "tells" him that it is a sin to denigrate any person, no matter their station or beliefs. And that man tells me there's nothing in my head. Thanks - you've made my day. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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No one ever said the religious were consistent. One of the Ten Really Good Ideas, number 9, I think, says something about bearing false witness.
We can always look forward to catching up with Larry in hell. Maybe toast his arrival with a frosty lager or two.