Brent Rowlett Loc: Atlanta, GA

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Nah, never said I have all the answers- just my opinion. I never insult anyone's intelligence. Folks can read different opinions and make up their own minds. I am pleased to hear of your financial success- if you work hard and deliver good work you are certainly entitled to good fortune. Mentorship in technique and marketing skills are not mutually exclusive. One can do both! Hopefully, skill and business savvy go hand in hand.

Oh- and just because we may have different opinions, does not make me a know-it-all, that's your opinion. I know of many world class masters, mentors and former students of mentors who have thriving businesses and are not closing their doors any time soon. Many of theses "mentors" derive a handsome income form their teaching and writing activities. The don't give away those books and classes!

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Nah...., this has way more intimidation effect in the ATTIC!!!
SS

Hal81 Loc: Bucks County, Pa.

Say "Smile".

Brent Rowlett Loc: Atlanta, GA

Brent Rowlett Loc: Atlanta, GA

[quote=E.L.. Shapiro]Nah, never said I have all the answers- just my opinion. I never insult anyone's intelligence. Folks can read different opinions and make up their own minds. I am pleased to hear of your financial success- if you work hard and deliver good work you are certainly entitled to good fortune. Mentorship in technique and marketing skills are not mutually exclusive. One can do both! Hopefully, skill and business savvy go hand in hand.

Never accused you of being a know it all, but I find it puzzling why you ask the question only to disagree with half or more of them, having all the answers.

I respect any portrait photographer that can make it today in a market where young people do not see the value of a portrait when a cell phone pic is good enough. Most homes have gone from oil portraits, to photography portraits, to nothing on the walls but modern art.

Jay Fletcher one of Atlanta’s best displaying 8’x10’ huge photos of Donald Trump & Family, Sidney Portier, Yovander Holyfield and other VIPs, was forced to close. The only portrait photographers making it today have a senior portrait feed, weddings and other photography to augment their portrait activity. I would not recommend that somebody go into portrait photography today. The market is shrinking fast. With the movie industry moving to Atlanta from Hollywood and Toronto, that has helped but the photography is fashion, casting, and portfolio work.

And of course, when you can’t make it any longer in the market, you teach.

papa Loc: Rio Dell, CA

Your question best answered by Annie Leibovitz in the opinion of this Rolling Stone. https://www.google.com/search?q=annie+leibovitz&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS713US713&oq=anne+lei&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.11932j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Never accused you of being a know it all, but I find it puzzling why you ask the question only to disagree with half or more of them, having all the answers.

I respect any portrait photographer that can make it today in a market where young people do not see the value of a portrait when a cell phone pic is good enough. Most homes have gone from oil portraits, to photography portraits, to nothing on the walls but modern art.

Jay Fletcher one of Atlanta’s best displaying 8’x10’ huge photos of Donald Trump & Family, Sidney Portier, Yovander Holyfield and other VIPs, was forced to close. The only portrait photographers making it today have a senior portrait feed, weddings and other photography to augment their portrait activity. I would not recommend that somebody go into portrait photography today. The market is shrinking fast. With the movie industry moving to Atlanta from Hollywood and Toronto, that has helped but the photography is fashion, casting, and portfolio work.

And of course, when you can’t make it any longer in the market, you teach.[/quote]

Hey Brent!

I'm sorry to hear that the portrait market in the U.S. has deteriorated to the point where a good portraitist can't make ends meet and earn a decent living. My home city was New York and back in the day there were many successful high end portrait studios and there was enough work for everyone.

Up here in Canada, the senior business is not as much of a mainstay as it is down home. In my own case I do quite a volume of corporate and institutional portraiture. I live and work in Ottawa, the seat of the Federal Government so there is always some campaigning going down and that is a good source of work. Satisfied corporate clients oftentimes bring us their family portrait and wedding work as well. I have not advertised or promote for portraiture in 10 years so most of the work comes in through referrals and some networking with other businesses and vendors. At our last quarterly statement, about 45% of our total volume was in portraiture. The rest is commercial photography in the food and beverage industry and the architectural markets as well as some small produce photography.

True enough, the loewe end market has suffered and given way to "selfies" and amateur work. Nowadays a studio has to diversify or their overhead costs will eat them up in slow season and downturns in the economy.

As far as portrait of celebrities and big shots- surprisingly enough, many of them are not the best customers. They sometimes feel that we should photograph them for prestige rather that money! So...I have done a few Prime Ministers, senators etc, hockey players, the odd movie star etc. It was fun and nice for the display room. Our best paying clients are regular folks, business people, military personnel, local mayors and chiefs of police etc. The Government departments and corporations pay their bills. Ordinary people who just want a good job done are still willing to pay my fees. We still do our share of larger display portraits for board rooms, offices and even private homes- they can hang them right next to their abstract art! There is allot of traditional older homes and estates around here.

I have done a few stills jobs for motion picture productions. Toronto, Montreal, and the Rocky mountains of Alberta and British Columbia are still sought after locations for major filmmakers from the U.S. and we have quite a bit of Canadian production ongoing as well. The government gives them perks and tax advantages. Brings in a bit of interesting stuff for me but certainly not an everyday thing.

Teaching- I do 2 workshop each year, mostly in Canada. Most of my teaching is devoted to training new kids for my own staff. This will be my last year of covering weddings (74 years old) so I am breaking in a crew to take that over.

That's it- that's all, nothing fancy! I like to maintain a positive attitude

OddJobber Loc: Portland, OR

For portraits, what settings should I use?

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

[quote=Brent Rowlett]

First, I guess I'm missing your point. Ed didn't start this thread, or the questions you keep saying he's disagreeing with. He's just explaining his opinion. I don't always agree 100% with Ed, or anyone else here, but think they all have a right to their opinion. In Ed's case, he's been successful in business long enough, that if anyone has at least "good reasons" to why he answers one way or another, he certainly does.

Secondly, why do you feel the need to make snide comments about mentors closing their doors, etc? Many of us started out with mentors, are still successful in business, and not mentor other people whether it be in book form, video form, or in the traditional sense of the word. Does it make you feel better to attack someone successful?

My mentor always told me to follow in the footsteps of someone successful, not to follow the crowd. In my case, I choose to follow the likes of Ed, and Cliff Lawson, and ignore those that try to make themselves look important. Those guys don't have to belittle people to make themselves look successful. They do it, by being successful.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Great link! I subscribed to Rolling Stone from 1970 to 1994. Now, I still get their daily emails. Annie Leibovitz was the #1 photographer on their staff for years and years and years. The first thing I did when I got a new issue was to look for her work, or the work of cartoonist, Ralph Steadman.

Annie has a style all her own, based on establishing relationships with her subjects that bare their souls. She has an uncanny knack for getting people to open up, quickly. Portraiture requires equipment and technical prowess. But it is not *about* equipment or technical prowess. It IS about communication with your subject and your viewer.

A Davidson classmate of mine, Terry Hummel, once edited that magazine. He knows lots of great photographers they've used over the years. Regardless of what you might think of Rolling Stone's left-leaning politics, their writing and photography have always been first rate. Terry and I had a long conversation about rockstar photography at our 40th class reunion, last summer. We miss the good old days, when you didn't need a press pass, or a legal agreement, or make a royalty payment to photograph performers. These days, it's all about who makes money off the band's or performer's image.

mas24 Loc: Southern CA

Annie Liebovitz. I didn't know she photographed John Lenon on the day he was assassinated in 1980. She was only 31 years old then. Now, about 68 years old, she's had many years to work on becoming an excellent professional photographer.

Brent Rowlett Loc: Atlanta, GA

One very important area of photography is the ability to edit photos. Attached is what you get when you hire the cheap wedding photographer for $600.00. This bride is a fellow teacher with my wife, and when she saw my ability to make composites and advertising photography at career day for the students, she requested if there was anything that could be done with her photos. Being very unhappy with the photography, I said I will take a look at the photos. Of the total mix, at least 50% were out of focus. Either the photographer had crappy equipment, bad eyesight, or the lack of knowledge of how to focus on the eyes and let the rest fall in place, but had I delivered these photos, I would have refunded the money and hope I did not get sued.

She wanted to give this photo to her mother for Christmas. The photographer evidently focused on the rock wall, because that is the only area of semi-acceptable focus. The face was totally out of focus. One might not be able to tell from a small photo, but at 8 x 10 plus, pure crap.

So I looked through the mix of photos and found the attached close up which was in focus, took the head and face, and placed it on the original photo. She wanted a blurred background so that the viewer would go to her image when viewing. The original was flat and ugly with gray sky. By adding a new sky and compositing, she was happy with the result. Under every condition, you get the best results by using an off camera flash for fill and focusing on the eyes.

dat2ra Loc: Sacramento

SharpShooter, I nearly always agree with your posts (you are a pretty smart guy :-), but your dismissal of studio in favor of environmental portrait photography is narrow minded. These are separate arts having different goals and purposes. Although you clearly dislike studio work, that doesn't mean it is of lesser value.

And as for talent, having taught University for 28 years I've seen a lot of talented students who never developed professionally because they lacked the dedication to learn the requisite skills (practise) needed to excel. None of these people are as good as those having less native talent but who did the work needed to develop their abilities.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Since this thread is about “GREAT “ portrait photography, I should mention that great or at least GOOD “bread and butter” portraiture was, perhaps back in the day, and still should remain part and parcel of professional wedding photography. Spontaneous candid images, photojournalism style, are an important component as well but an elegant series of bridal portraits should be an essential part of professional wedding coverage.

Editing, enhancement and retouching has and always been a part of fine portraiture, however, no degree of retouching expertise can completely remedy a poorly posed, lighted and technically deficient photograph. It is shameful that whoever made that original bridal portrait represented themselves as a professional- if that's what they did and did not admit that they are a rank amateur and therefore was charging a fee that was commensurate with their level of performance, well the were dishonest or totally uninformed.

I usually do not offer harsh critiques and I don't like to add insult to injury but that original image is a mess. That lovely bride invested in a beautiful gown and bouquet and I am sure she wanted to appear at her very best in her wedding photographs.

Great full length bridal portraits start from the “feet on the ground and upward”. In his image the bride was allowed to stand flat-footed and nearly sideways to the camera. Not standing with her shoulder and body line at around 45° or less to the camera, with her near leg extended- forward and the knee bent, creates an unflattering view of her figure and upper arms and provides no shape to the gown as the designer intended. The flowers are held too high thereby obscuring the bodice of the dress and her lower arm and hand disappear into the bouquet- an abrupt cut. The basic contra or feminine pose wasn't formed. The train is not properly draped nor is the veil. Her hair shroud have been tidied up a bit- that's attention to detail. The overhead non-directional lighting cause“raccoon-eyes” that is, a lack of shadow detail in the orbital area of the face and the resulting lack of detail and good catch-lights in the eyes. I could go on!

The fact that the retoucher had to perform a “head transplant” and a bit of dentistry and try to restore some focus in order to come up with an “acceptable” portrait- kinda tells the story!

The consummate wedding photographer is a hybrid- part portraitist, part fashion shooter and part photojournalist.

So...we talk about whether to study the work of Annie Libowitz or Yosef Karsh, and which workshop to take or book to read by which big-shot Hollywood iconic head shot guru or top society wedding shooter. My advice- first learn the basics. If you want to become a great portraitist, find one which is willing to teach you. There is nothing wrong with self teaching, reading book, studying the work of the will know masters etc. Problem is, its difficult to understated or execute advanced work without a firm grasp of the basics. Great work is not gonna come out of one book, class, workshop or single course. It's a process that entails serious study and hard work with plenty of practice.

It's kinda sad that the maker of that original wedding portrait probable did not study their craft under a masterful mentor or at least an experienced and established wedding photographer, or did some serious reading and research. If she did, she did not listen to her teacher or comprehend what she was reading. Unfortunately, there is lots of this going on out there!