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Starting "Digital SLR" on the used/refurbished budget dollar?
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Mar 27, 2018 13:38:24   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
120nut wrote:
Old semi-pro and now fervent hobbyist. I have been fortunate to work (as in PAID!) In all still formats up to 4 X 5 and industrial pro video and Time-Warner Cable locally. Now I still use my trusty Minoltas and TLR's. Just for kicks and snaps, I have been using a Canon Power Shot SD 550 ( a pretty "smart" little point-and-shoot ). I love all the options of this little jewel, but now I am yearning for a "big boy" digital SLR. I am a young senior (76) but making life work with social security and a talented wife. ;) We do a lot of music related things to be able to live fairly well considering the times. All that said I want to make our first purchase a solid camera with a good "rep". All input would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime I have been enticing a little red squirrel to pose outside my back window, even named him "Bubba" and of course "Mrs. Bubba". They are the best-fed squirrels in the neighborhood and they get serious about other squirrels encroaching on their territory.
Pix to come!
Old semi-pro and now fervent hobbyist. I have been... (show quote)


nut, welcome to the Hog!
I recommend you look at a used Canon 5D mkll. It’s an excellent FF prosumer camera and would be an AWSOME starter camera for any needs.
Put whatever EF lens on it that fits your budget and needs to get started. Good luck!!!
SS

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Mar 27, 2018 15:07:18   #
Ron Dial Loc: Cuenca, Ecuador
 
Try KEH.com in Atlanta. They are pro camera brokers. Have bought and sold things to them for years. Their ads are very accurate and well priced.

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Mar 27, 2018 15:26:33   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
120nut wrote:
Old semi-pro and now fervent hobbyist. I have been fortunate to work (as in PAID!) In all still formats up to 4 X 5 and industrial pro video and Time-Warner Cable locally. Now I still use my trusty Minoltas and TLR's. Just for kicks and snaps, I have been using a Canon Power Shot SD 550 ( a pretty "smart" little point-and-shoot ). I love all the options of this little jewel, but now I am yearning for a "big boy" digital SLR. I am a young senior (76) but making life work with social security and a talented wife. ;) We do a lot of music related things to be able to live fairly well considering the times. All that said I want to make our first purchase a solid camera with a good "rep". All input would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime I have been enticing a little red squirrel to pose outside my back window, even named him "Bubba" and of course "Mrs. Bubba". They are the best-fed squirrels in the neighborhood and they get serious about other squirrels encroaching on their territory.
Pix to come!
Old semi-pro and now fervent hobbyist. I have been... (show quote)


Any brand of relatively modern DSLR or mirrorless camera will do the job, however if you like the menu system on your Canon Power Shot, then you may find moving to a Canon DSLR or even mirrorless gives you a head start. Canon controls and terminology have been pretty consistent since the introduction of the AE-1 in 1976, and certainly since the T90 in 1986, and the EOS system in 1987.

It all depends what is important to you.

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Mar 28, 2018 00:51:06   #
bking3
 
You can also check out the buy&sell forum on FredMiranda.com. I have bought and sold gear on there for years with no issues. Just photographers like us, not commercial enterprises.

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Mar 28, 2018 06:44:56   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
120nut wrote:
Old semi-pro and now fervent hobbyist. I have been fortunate to work (as in PAID!) In all still formats up to 4 X 5 and industrial pro video and Time-Warner Cable locally. Now I still use my trusty Minoltas and TLR's. Just for kicks and snaps, I have been using a Canon Power Shot SD 550 ( a pretty "smart" little point-and-shoot ). I love all the options of this little jewel, but now I am yearning for a "big boy" digital SLR. I am a young senior (76) but making life work with social security and a talented wife. ;) We do a lot of music related things to be able to live fairly well considering the times. All that said I want to make our first purchase a solid camera with a good "rep". All input would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime I have been enticing a little red squirrel to pose outside my back window, even named him "Bubba" and of course "Mrs. Bubba". They are the best-fed squirrels in the neighborhood and they get serious about other squirrels encroaching on their territory.
Pix to come!
Old semi-pro and now fervent hobbyist. I have been... (show quote)


It would be hard to buy a modern camera that isn't good, so that's in your favor. When you narrow down your choices, look at comparison sites. Don't rule out used and refurbished.

Read comparisons and specs, and decide what features are important to you.
(Reviews) https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCameraStoreTV/videos
http://www.cameradecision.com/
http://cameras.reviewed.com/
http://camerasize.com/
http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
http://snapsort.com/compare
http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/cameras?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu

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Mar 28, 2018 06:45:47   #
NormanTheGr8 Loc: Racine, Wisconsin
 
My 1st DSLR was a Canon 7D mk II refurb that was 3 yrs ago and it's been problem free so far,my next body will most likely be a referb also

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Mar 28, 2018 06:52:10   #
rdubreuil Loc: Dummer, NH USA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
It would be hard to buy a modern camera that isn't good, so that's in your favor. When you narrow down your choices, look at comparison sites. Don't rule out used and refurbished.

Read comparisons and specs, and decide what features are important to you.
(Reviews) https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCameraStoreTV/videos
http://www.cameradecision.com/
http://cameras.reviewed.com/
http://camerasize.com/
http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
http://snapsort.com/compare
http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/cameras?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu
It would be hard to buy a modern camera that isn't... (show quote)


Establish what your budget is first, then start your research, google away. Just remember it's not just the body, you're gonna need glass.

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Mar 28, 2018 07:34:30   #
Boris Ekner Loc: From Sweden, living in Guatemala
 
120nut wrote:
Old semi-pro and now fervent hobbyist. I have been fortunate to work (as in PAID!) In all still formats up to 4 X 5 and industrial pro video and Time-Warner Cable locally. Now I still use my trusty Minoltas and TLR's. Just for kicks and snaps, I have been using a Canon Power Shot SD 550 ( a pretty "smart" little point-and-shoot ). I love all the options of this little jewel, but now I am yearning for a "big boy" digital SLR. I am a young senior (76) but making life work with social security and a talented wife. ;) We do a lot of music related things to be able to live fairly well considering the times. All that said I want to make our first purchase a solid camera with a good "rep". All input would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime I have been enticing a little red squirrel to pose outside my back window, even named him "Bubba" and of course "Mrs. Bubba". They are the best-fed squirrels in the neighborhood and they get serious about other squirrels encroaching on their territory.
Pix to come!
Old semi-pro and now fervent hobbyist. I have been... (show quote)


Buy the one that fits your budget. Decide which one is best for you and your needs.

Below is what I did when looking for my best choice of camera.

—-

This is not the kind of question one can answer to anyone’s satisfaction in a 140 character tweet...

---

Here's my answer to a similar question in another forum.

Disclaimer
I’ve had a camera since I was 7 y/o, in 1969. Some year later I got my own darkroom. I am NOT a professional photographer. That said, keep in mind that below is my personal experience of seriously getting into digital photography.

Here is what I did:
-Budget: no more than $500. (This was the most important criteria I had.)
-Searched for $500 DSLR's on eBay & Amazon in order to understand what I might get.
-I found some favorite models that I compared side by side at http://cameradecision.com. I refused to have any brand preferences.
-I read & watched plenty of reviews on the cameras I found interesting.

Here is the compressed version:
Canon - Good for video. User friendly interface.
Nikon - Lots of very good lenses. Great pictures.
Pentax - Weather sealed. Very good for landscape. Excellent user interface.
Fujifilm - Mirrorless with great results.
Sony - Mirrorless. Makes the sensors for Nikon.
Olympus - Good cameras.

Furthermore, about the two largest brands; Nikon vs Canon:
* Nikon should, over time, dig a smaller whole in your economy as long as you stay on a fair amateur level. I.e. Nikon cropped sensor/DX is more budget friendly, especially if you later decide to upgrade to a more advanced DX camera body. And to my understanding Nikon has more APS-C lenses than Canon. Buy them used!
* Canon might, initially, be more expensive than Nikon but might be cheaper in the long run regarding brand new additional lenses.
* There’s literally no image quality difference between the two. Some argue that Canon have more vibrant colores than Nikon. Others argue that this is more due to the person behind the camera than the actual camera itself.
* Some argue that Canon has a more user friendly interface, and is better for video, others differ.

All cameras are compromises. Some are better for this, some are better for that. Some have preferred features, other€™s don’€™t have them. You have to figure out what features and performances you want your camera to have to fit your needs.

That said, my priorities were; very good professional reviews, the highest pixel count possible, RAW format option, wifi, built in GPS, fair prices & f/values on future lenses.

Nikon D5300 turned out to be the final option. With my personal preferences, and budget, it was by far the best option. Price paid: $449 on eBay, including an 18-55mm lens, plus some other (now useless)-stuff/junk in the bundle.

I've had the camera since January 2017, and I have no regrets on my purchase. On the contrary, I'm very happy with what I got for the money I spent. Just for the fun of it, I still read reviews on other cameras. Time and time again the D5300 has proven to be the right choice for my kind of photography. I.e. so far no other camera has popped up as a better option.

Later I bought a 55-200mm, a 35mm, and a Tokina 11-20mm, all used lenses, from eBay. A better speedlight/iTTL flash, a good tripod, petal lens hoods, third party battery grip, extra batteries, twin charger, better/faster memory card, micro extension tubes, and some other stuff. All from eBay which time after time confirms to provide the best prices. Next on the wish list is the Nikkor 17-55mm to replace the 18-55mm kit lens that came with the camera, and the 80-200mm f/2.8 as it is better than the 55-200 I currently have.

Your best option is probably not my best, and vice versa. It is not about the camera as much as it is about the photographer. Just as a good stove isn't enough to cook you a good dinner, right?

In order to update my knowledge from film to digital photography, I started off with reading Nikon D5300 For Dummies as well as Stunning Digital Photography by Tony Northrup. The third book was Secrets To The Nikon Autofocus System by Steve Perry, which is my favorite so far. The fourth book was Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson. This was all well invested pennies, and as knowledge has no weight it is easy to carry around. All books, but “Secrets to...”€ are available at Amazon.com

- You’ll find “Secrets To...”€ at
https://backcountrygallery.com/secrets-nikon-autofocus-system/

Best of luck on your pursuit of your best camera. ...and don't rush it to get one. Take your time, i.e. weeks, to learn about your options and what you favor.

—€”-

Note 1
Regarding long range zoom lenses it is good to know that the longer the range the less the image quality at the far ends of the range. Lens reviews are found at Camera Decision and LensTip.com, as well as on YouTube.

—€”-

Here is two very informative D5300 Reviews:
Exploring the Nikon D5300: A Mid-Range Impressive DSLR Camera
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d5300.htm

Canon or Nikon, which one is the best?
http://the-pro-photographer.com/canon-vs-nikon-which-is-the-best/

Please keep in mind that Pentax, Olympus, Sony, Fujifilm, makes very good cameras as well!

PS
I had the same procedure when I looked for, and bought, my sons camera. (He turned 6 at the end of July, 2017)
The budget was no more than $80, had to be fully automatic, as well as having manual features to grow with as he gets older and if his photo interest persists. Best option: a used Fujifilm Finepix S8600 (it's a bridge camera), for $76 on eBay.
And there are instructive videos for his camera on YouTube for him to watch later.

PPS
Here is a different opinion on this issue.
The Battle is Over: My Micro 4/3 Camera Outsold my Full-Frame DSLR

—€”-

Next task, after learning to take good to great pictures, is to learn how to use Lightroom properly. Here I’ve found that Serge Ramelli is a favorite of mine. I’€™ve bought some of his lessons but haven’t had the time for them yet.

Keep you in mind that the better quality of the original photo the less you need to post process it, if any at all. Photography is the art of capturing light, and the better the original the easier and more optional the post processing. After I’ve learned more about Lightroom, Photoshop is next...

---

Note 2
With courtesy of Jim Stascavage, member of this forum:
"For anyone wondering how big a crop sensor image can go, here is a photo I took with a D7200 a few years ago that makes up a 12'x16' [3.6x4.9 m] wall in our office break room."
-
He shot the picture from another water vessel, while it was moving!

FYI
1. All Nikon's with cropped 24MP sensors has the same sensor as Jim's D7200.
2. A modern TV is ~2MP. A 4K TV is 8+MP.



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Mar 28, 2018 07:55:58   #
rayr
 
I'm a big bird and wildlife shooter and I found over the past couple of years that my full frame Nikon and 150-600mm lenses had become quite heavy to pack around and caused back and shoulder aches after a few hours of shooting. A year ago I went to a mirrorless M43 system, The Olympus EM-1 Mark ll and I have to say I really enjoy going out with this camera. So look into the M43 cameras, try one out, I think you will be surprised.

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Mar 28, 2018 09:37:17   #
Cookie223 Loc: New Jersey
 
As mentioned by other members, Adorama, B&H, Cameta, and KEH have excellent reputations. I have also used Roberts Camera in the Indianapolis area, which comes out with some outstanding used items. https://usedphotopro.com/

They are currently having a sale on used gear.

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Mar 28, 2018 09:42:18   #
timcc Loc: Virginia
 
Given your age (and a lot of us are in the same ballpark), I suggest looking closely at the various mirrorless cameras -- Sony, Fuji, and Olympus in particular. They feature excellent IQ and lighter weight and smaller form than DSLRs (although the bulk and weight of large lenses can weigh your bag down almost as much as a DSLR with comparable lenses).

There are lots of videos, reviews, etc. on the Internet that will give you comparisons of different cameras and show the relative merits of mirrorless vs. DSLR.

Good luck!

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Mar 28, 2018 10:41:09   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
As you surely well know the selection of a camera is a very personal matter. As you feel a camera in your hands, its construction, the controls and with digital it should have those parameters you use more often.
There are excellent prices in the second hand market. I recently bought from Roberts Camera in Indiana a used item and they gave me a six months warranty. Customer service is first quality.
Excellent buys also in refurb cameras and Cameta offers a one year warranty on their refurbs. Same goes for lenses.
If you have a near by camera store that would be the best place to test a camera and to receive good advise.

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Mar 28, 2018 10:53:24   #
ebbote Loc: Hockley, Texas
 
Welcome to the Forum, enjoy.

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Mar 28, 2018 12:15:51   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
Factory refurbished Canon gear is now only sold direct from Canon USA website. It comes with the same 1 year warranty as new.

You hardly see any Canon refurbs at retailers any more... But if you do, I'd wonder "refurbished by whom?"... often it has 90 day warranty, like used. So maybe calling it refurbished just means "we cleaned it and 'refurbished' sounds better than 'used'".

Agree about some of the best retailers: B&H, Adorama, KEH, and a few others are great. Be careful buying elsewhere online, though. There are a lot of shysters!

If you decide on Canon... 50D is a 15MP model from 2008 that can be bought for around $250 or less now. It was Canon's "semi-pro" series at the time, with magnesium body panels and features like self-cleaning sensor, micro focus adjust, and more. It has a fairly high spec shutter (1/8000 top shutter speed and 1/250 flash sync... rated for 100,000 "clicks"). The 50D, 40D before it and 60D after all have similar 9-point AF system that's quite good (all points are higher performance "cross type"), but relatively simple.

After the 50D, in approx. 2009 Canon split the series in two with 60D slightly downgrade (18MP, more plastic, less direct access to some controls, NO micro focus adjust, otherwise same AF as 50D) and slight upgrade 7D (1st version, also 18MP, more advanced & high performance 19-point AF, 100% viewfinder, similar build as 50D but actually a step up with more sealing for weather resistance).

Since then there have been 70D, 80D and 7D Mark II upgrades... all of which are fine and have various incremental improvements, but will cost more money.

All the above are Canon's "top-of-the-line APS-C models" or nearly so, in their day. These have "true" pentaprisms with 98% coverage or better (80D and both 7D are 100%). The slowest of them can shoot at about 6 frames per second... the fastest at 10 fps. They range from 15MP in 50D to 20MP in 7D Mark II & 70D to 24MP in 80D. They all have shutters rated for at least 100,000 actuations (7D 150K, 7DII 200K).

There are cheaper "Rebel" models in the US (same but with different names in Japan and the rest of the world). Those are very capable, but use less direct controls, use "penta mirrors" to save weight and cost, typically have 95% coverage viewfinders, use more plastic in their construction, rely upon smaller batteries (approx. half the shots per charge compared to the above models w/larger batteries), and have lower specification shutters (1/4000 top speed and 1/200 or slower flash sync, and typically rated for 75,000 clicks).

As APS-C models, all the above Canon DSLRs can use both "crop only" EF-S lenses and "full frame capable" EF lenses. No worries or compatibility issues using any of the Canon lenses made the past 30 years. Third party lenses (Sigma, Tamron, Tokina) will probably be okay, too... but sometimes older ones won't work properly with newer cameras. No guarantees like there are using Canon lenses on Canon cameras.

Based on your description I would NOT recommend full frame Canon DSLRs unless you plan to make really big prints or have some other strong reason for needing the larger format sensor. A FF camera itself will invariably cost more... Plus the less expensive older FF models use simpler, lower performance AF systems and possibly lower specification shutters. Newer APS-C models can match or beat older FF for resolution, high ISO performance and more. FF models also are limited to using full frame capable (EF) lenses, which tend to be bigger, heavier and more expensive.

Lenses are perhaps a bigger consideration than the camera they are used upoon. I agree with another post... if you already have some relatively modern Minolta lenses, you might want to check into their usability on modern Sony DSLRs. Minolta merged with Konica in 2003, if I recall correctly. Konica-Minolta then sold off their photography division to Sony around 2006 (Sony kept the camera & lens divisions & has partnered with Zeiss on a lot of things.... Sony sold off some subsidiaries such as the Minolta light meter division that was purchased by Kenko). So modern Sony can utilize some vintage Minolta lenses. I don't know the details, though... so you'll need to check if any lenses you have are usable or not.

Sony and Canon are the two primary manufacturers of imaging sensors for DSLRs. They each make them for their own cameras, of course. Sony also provides most of the sensors that Nikon and Pentax use. Until recently, Canon did not sell sensors to other manufacturers... but they have recently announced that they will do so

If you decide to go with Canon gear, there are a lot of lenses to choose among.... many of which are excellent... but a few of which are not so great and probably should be avoided.

I'd recommend you stick with Canon USM or STM lenses.... Those are "Ultrasonic" and "Stepper Motor" focus drive systems. In most cases USM are the fastest and are relatively quiet, ideal for sports and other action photography. STM are reasonably fast, though slower than USM.... but are very smooth and quiet, fine for a lot of things but ideal for videography. There are a few cheaper "micro motor" lenses that are slower and noisier focusing (to identify them... they're not marked either STM or USM), also some of the oldest models were that type. A few were pretty good (35mm f/2, 24mm f/2.8 for example). But others.... not so much (for example, EF 75-300mm "III", for example, which is still being sold new and is Canon's cheapest telephoto zoom... the EF-S 55-250mm IS STM is a much better lens for a little more money.) Canon's "L" series are top of the line, but also high priced.

Third party manufacturers also use various focus drives and have different grades of lenses. Sigma HSM and Tamron USD are similar to Canon USM, for example.

Canon pioneered image stabilization (IS) in their lenses in the 1990s... and it's now found in many of their lenses. IS was one of the top reasons I switched to Canon gear in 2001, when they were the only manufacturer offering it. It is "game changing" technology that proved so successful that ALL other DSLR manufactures have had to follow Canon's lead and implement some sort of stabilization in their camera systems. Nikon (VR) and to a lesser degree Sony (OSS) have in-lens that's similar to Canon. Sigma OS and Tamron VC are similar, too. Pentax, Sony (so some extent) and Olympus have in-camera stabilization instead. That has advantages and disadvantages... In-camera stabilization means any and all lenses used on it are stabilized. But in-lens stabilization also helps steady the image seen in optical viewfinders, which can be useful, while in-camera doesn't. However, more an more cameras are using electronic viewfinders, which might benefit from in-camera stabilization (but also may not be ideal for action photography due to slightly lag in the display... though newer EVFs are getting faster and more comparable to optical VF).

Any lens used on the above Canon APS-C models will "act like" a 1.6X longer lens would on a 35mm film or full frame digital camera. For example, the Canon EF-S 10-22mm on any of those APS-C "acts like" a 16-35mm would on film/FF. Or, a 300mm lens on APS-C will give you angle of view like a 480mm lens would on film/FF. Someone completely new to photography with no preconceptions about focal lengths doesn't need to worry about this.... But as an experienced photographer, you might want to emulate favorite focal lengths you used on your 35mm film SLR and will need to use this "lens factor" to determine what lenses will come the closest on the modern DSLR with it's slightly smaller image sensor format. For example, I always liked a "slightly wide normal" lens on my film cameras, so the fairly compact Canon 28mm f/1.8 USM suits me quite well on my APS-C format cameras (where it "acts like" approx. 45mm on film/FF... i.e. 28 x 1.6 = 44.5). Some other folks prefer a 35mm lens as their "normal" (Canon offers two currently and has had another in the past). And a 50mm f/1.4... which I really didn't use a lot on film cameras... now acts as a short telephoto that's ideal for portraiture and sees a lot of use on my APS-C DSLRs. An 85mm f/1.8 on APS-C "acts like" 135mm did on film... While a 135mm f/2 behaves like a very fast 200mm would on film. Etc.

With Nikon, Sony and Pentax APS-C models, use a slightly different 1.5X lens factor.

Hope this helps! Have fun shopping.

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Mar 28, 2018 13:04:56   #
LeoDK
 
Hi,
I am also new to the forums here as well, but as a beginner photographer, I found other outlets besides the websites people listed in here. I used places like Facebook marketplace and Let Go, I was able to get a Canon Rebel 100D(Sl1) and 4 lenses for under 500, including extra batteries and a bag. I check it regularly since I am looking for a nifty fifty still, However, I see a lot of cameras for sale like Nikon, Canon, Sony for reasonable prices as most of the listings are from people like myself who started out with budget Cameras, and then upgraded to full frame ones to further their progress.

What I learned from this site of wonderful photographers is that depending on whatever brand you choose, I would not worry so much about the camera body, but make sure the lenses are good quality since they are interchangeable with new bodies. for example two of the lenses I own now are EF(canon) and work with my sl1 and will work with a full frame camera(for when I graduate into a full fledge enthusiast instead of being a hobby boy).

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck and look forward to seeing your pic's.

Leo D.K.

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