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Mar 13, 2018 17:24:48   #
deer2ker Loc: Nashville, TN
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
I suspect that most gallery-type topics found in main discussion forum are there accidentally and were intended to be posted to Photo Gallery.

By now (you've been a member for six years) you should have noted that the average age of members on UHH is probably 60 - 70 years old. The majority of folks are hobbyists, many have physical challenges and many are limited in their social and familial interactions.

UHH's Photo Gallery is primarily used just for social sharing, so it's best to not assume that every photographer posting has a goal of becoming more skilled. However, you will often find OP's asking for feedback, so why not hold your well intended observations for those who actually request it, and for the sections on UHH specifically organized for critique and detailed opinions?
I suspect that most gallery-type topics found in m... (show quote)



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Mar 13, 2018 17:27:01   #
rjaywallace Loc: Wisconsin
 
What many of you don’t understand is that when someone posts a photo that may have been the best result they have ever achieved to date, continually shooting them down with harsh criticism will have just one result - [b] they will never post another image and will soon abandon the hobby of photography altogether. Whatever creative, artistic skill they may ever have will be lost forever. Give new photographers a break. Let them grow.

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Mar 13, 2018 17:32:39   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
bertloomis wrote:
I think you are missing the point. The issue is praising or complimenting photos that are poor or mediocre at best. If this is done, it just keeps the photographer from getting better because he/she thinks the work is good, when it is not.


My point is that we need to accept that the Gallery section of UHH is not primarily about getting "better" - the definition of which is going to vary widely, of course. I have posted plenty of photos I love (and wouldn't change) that others hate

Most critique is subjective; if we don't know what, if any, dissatisfaction the photographer might have, or what their goals and interests are, how can we presume to know how to help? (yes, I'm guilty of presuming at times too!)

Regarding all those compliments you think are misplaced - we're back to the social sharing aspects, casual hobbyists, just wanting to have fun - on and on. Find the people who are asking for help, or be proactive with positive teaching topics, and just ignore the "undeserved" praise towards those folks who have no desire to change.

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Mar 13, 2018 17:33:39   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
mwsilvers wrote:
With regard to the first part of your post, I have never posted in the gallery for the simple reason that I do not have the need or desire to say 'look at what I've done', and I certainly would never ask for a critical opinion here since there are relatively few here with the knowledge and skills to make such judgements as you've already discovered. I do post photos occasionally in the main form when it is germane to the topic being discussed.

Like you I find it frustrating to see countless poor images being lauded by people that don't know any more about photography then those who took the mediocre images in the first place. The best you can do is dispassionately, and without insult, suggest ways that the photograph could be improved. If you are not confident enough in your own skills to make suggestions, then, it's probably best for you to ignore those threads. Unlike some more specialized photography forums geared more towards highly-skilled photographers, UHH has a very large membership with widely varying skills. And do not assume that a high post count is an indication of skill. There are people here with well over 10,000 posts who still barely know which end of the camera to point at their subjects and have little understanding of lighting or composition.
With regard to the first part of your post, I have... (show quote)

I am one of those people with over 10,000 posts. Very few were photos. There are many sections here where pros post photos and discuss things relative to their various photo skills. And with regard to your snarky statement regarding which end of the camera, and or the skill of the person with that camera, if you have so little regard of the folks on the forum, why are you here?

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Mar 13, 2018 17:39:20   #
deer2ker Loc: Nashville, TN
 
I posted a pic in MPD that a friend sent me that was kind of cool of a "concert and concert goers" that was really a cotton field and harvester. I didn't really know where to put it so it came here. Admin moved it to general chit chat which was correct and I'm glad they did. Most people who post here incorrectly just don't know and when admin moves them, they learn and move on. It's no big deal really. As far as extending praise to something that may not be "photography genius" in your eyes, it really isn't up to you what others think is it? Respect for all will generate respect back - kindness and encouragement goes a long way. I don't mind criticism on my pics I post because my whole goal is learning to be better where some others goals may be the warmth they feel and a kinship with others who share their passion. Spread the love brother! ;)

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Mar 13, 2018 17:40:53   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
My point is that we need to accept that the Gallery section of UHH is not primarily about getting "better" - the definition of which is going to vary widely, of course. I have posted plenty of photos I love that others hate

So much of critique is subjective; if we don't know what, if any, dissatisfaction the photographer might have, or what their goals and interests are, how can we presume to know how to help? (yes, I'm guilty of presuming at times too!)

Regarding all those compliments you think are misplaced - we're back to the social sharing aspects, casual hobbyists, just wanting to have fun - on and on.
My point is that we need to accept that the Galler... (show quote)

The other issue is a definition of 'good', because 'better' means heading toward 'good'. An artist and a photojournalist would have completely different definitions of 'good', for example.

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Mar 13, 2018 17:41:20   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
rjaywallace wrote:
Linda, I still disagree that such an arbitrary rule should be applied to any post in the main section. Until the day I die.


Ralph, I think there are 20 something section. Should we be able to post photographs where ever? I don't understand the issue with having one section for just showing photographs and one for talking. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't understand what you see wrong with the setup we have now.

--

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Mar 13, 2018 17:43:38   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
rjaywallace wrote:
Linda - You are one of the most helpful, friendly members in this group. But I disagree very strongly with the silly practice of discouraging other members from posting any photograph they consider worthy of posting in a section called The Main Photography Discussion of UHH. I understand that they want to share what they feel are their triumphs (even if the results are less than triumphant). It happens to be their constitutional right to do so, and blocking them is flat out wrong. /Ralph
Linda - You are one of the most helpful, friendly ... (show quote)


Which constitution is that then?

The constitution of a country stands as a base for law, not what private companies have to abide by.

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Mar 13, 2018 17:50:21   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
rehess wrote:
The other issue is a definition of 'good', because 'better' means heading toward 'good'. An artist and a photojournalist would have completely different definitions of 'good', for example.


A point well worth its own topic, and expanding to "who gets to tell us what is good?"

What about all the artists, including photographers, whose work was ignored or vilified while they were living, only to find great popularity - and tossing around of words like "genius" after they died?

For most of us here, getting "better" means working towards a personal goal with a certain technique, genre, style of processing, ability to convey a personal vision, and so forth. Or of becoming commercially successful.

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Mar 13, 2018 17:50:55   #
twiceeagles
 
Bill, I was about to say what you said. I understood that was supposed to be the way site was set up. There are places for criticism, and this isn't it.

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Mar 13, 2018 18:12:27   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
BHC wrote:
People frequently post pictures in the MPD section of the forum. I am NOT trying to start another rant or multi-page fight over whether such pictures should be posted here or in the gallery. Now I know these people are proud of their photos, although, even by my standards, a few of such pictures are really bad. And before anyone starts to berate me for not posting my own photos, I will remind you that I am a lousy photographer who has taken less than a dozen acceptable pictures in my life (but I keep trying), and also because there was an incident on this forum in which a member copied another member's avatar (her pre-teen daughter), did some editing and put it on an entirely inappropriate website;. I don't post!

My concern is that, no matter how bad the pictures are, they are invariably followed by numerous posts exclaiming how beautiful the pictures are, how beautiful the colors are, how well they're composed, etc. Now many of the pictures are good to outstanding, and, setting the argument of section placement aside, deserve such praise. But what should I, as a single member, do? Yes, I know I could ignore the thread and move on. But some of these pictures are SO BAD, I really feel obliged to comment. I am not thinking about making stupid, cruel and inappropriate slaps at the pictures; I want to make remarks about the specific aspects of the picture, worded as positively as possible. Yet I am afraid of being bombarded by those who are themselves encouraging the photographer to not learn and to go out and continue to make bad photographs. I would appreciate any comments on this matter, positive or negative. Here is your chance, maybe, to encourage a positive approach to this issue. And, yes, I know it is also a chance to flame me. But, before you flame me, remember that we want to help, not hurt, the other members of this forum. Thank you.
People frequently post pictures in the MPD section... (show quote)


BHC, I’m gonna suggest you turn this into a positive. Get a calendar and with every awful image, put a little x on that day. Then at the end of the year they could all be added up and analyzed.
Maybe the bulk of the images are post at full moons, or holidays or near election days or even April Fools Day etc?!
Anyway, inquiring minds would certainly like to know!!!! Good luck!
SS

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Mar 13, 2018 18:36:44   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
Mac wrote:
You say that you, yourself are a lousy photographer. Don't you think that you should direct your thoughts and ideas on how to improve a photograph toward yourself and improve your own photography before you start making suggestions to others? If you are a lousy photographer how can you judge the quality of someone else's photography?

I am no judge of the artistic aspects of photography, but when it comes to good photography, to quote Justice Stewart, "I know it when I see it". I am not concerned about good photos or even borderline photos. I am concerned about the occasional, really terrible photo that is posted by the raves of those who might even be recognizing a bad photo, but are afraid to buck the number of "great photo" and "oh how sweet" and similar comments, when the OP would be best served by someone saying, "Thanks for sharing. Your photo has potential, but might benefit by opening the shadows just a bit. If you want to try and are happy with the results, please repost it - and tell us everything you did do it so we can learn too".

As I said, I am a lousy photographer and have been for 65+ years. Fortunately some on the people who have bought or published some of my photos didn't think so. I am an eclectic shooter, using everything from an iPhone to a Leica to large format film. Occasionally, I'll get one right. Sometimes that happens when others look at one of my photos and suggests how to fix it. As a matter of fact, that's exactly what happened with one photo that went on to earn a particular charity several thousand dollars (several special order prints). You learn by listening to constructive feedback. Or were you just born a master photographer?

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Mar 13, 2018 19:10:14   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
boberic wrote:
I am one of those people with over 10,000 posts. Very few were photos. There are many sections here where pros post photos and discuss things relative to their various photo skills. And with regard to your snarky statement regarding which end of the camera, and or the skill of the person with that camera, if you have so little regard of the folks on the forum, why are you here?


There are plenty of people with over 10,000 posts who are very knowledgeable. I was just pointing out an absolute fact that there are also a huge number of people on this site who are not very knowledgeable, and the sheer number of posts that one makes, or the number of years that they are here, is not an indicator of skill level. My reason for being here is to learn from those who know as much or more than I do and to teach those who know less. And I was not being snarky but accurate. There are a number of long-term members of this forum with thousands and thousands of posts who have often surprised me with by asking rather basic questions that I would expect from newbies.

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Mar 13, 2018 19:19:50   #
Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak
 
There is a photo analysis section for those who want to post a photo for critical review. As I understand it, this would be the place to post photos to obtain suggestions, critical analysis, etc., in an attempt to learn and improve ones photography skills. The regular gallery is the place for posting photos for any reason. People take photos for a variety of reasons, such as to document something, to record a moment, produce a photo that is art for others to appreciate, and often members like to share a photo for others to enjoy. It’s true, there are some photos that lack high quality, some are excellent, and others lie somewhere in between. I think people just want to share what they do. No problem there. That’s why there’s a general photo gallery.

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Mar 13, 2018 19:30:17   #
Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.
 
Wingpilot wrote:
There is a photo analysis section for those who want to post a photo for critical review. As I understand it, this would be the place to post photos to obtain suggestions, critical analysis, etc., in an attempt to learn and improve ones photography skills. The regular gallery is the place for posting photos for any reason. People take photos for a variety of reasons, such as to document something, to record a moment, produce a photo that is art for others to appreciate, and often members like to share a photo for others to enjoy. It’s true, there are some photos that lack high quality, some are excellent, and others lie somewhere in between. I think people just want to share what they do. No problem there. That’s why there’s a general photo gallery.
There is a photo analysis section for those who wa... (show quote)



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