lilac

Sad but true!!!

DIRTY HARRY Loc: Hartland, Michigan

BUT an AR-15 with a shit load of bullets makes it so much for people to kill people. Ya don't take a knife to a gun fight. A gun ALWAYS makes one person dead right and others just dead. As I said NOT EVERYONE OR ANYONE should have access to a gun of any sort. Where does "The right to bare arms" end? A 50 mm sniper rifle with a 2 mile range, a Gatling gun off an A-10 Warthog, anti-tank rockets, anti-aircraft rockets? Or is it just whatever I can afford along with a "RAMBO" video for training?

Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV

Well said

Mick_E_C

If guns aren't the problem, then let's agree to go back to the days of the Second Amendment and trade in all our guns for muskets.

Guaranteed, that will be the end of mass murders.

DIRTY HARRY Loc: Hartland, Michigan

This should scare the crap out of any reasonable person:

CONCEALED CARRY RECIPROCITY PASSES: GUN LAWS MAY GET A LOT LOOSER BARELY TWO MONTHS AFTER LAS VEGAS SHOOTING

H.R. 38, known as the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017, requires states to recognize the concealed gun carry permits of visitors from other states. A resident of Kansas, for example, which lets people carry concealed guns without any permits, could travel with a gun to New York City, where gun laws are much stricter, if this bill passes the Senate and is signed into law.

The bill was combined with legislation to update the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS. With its 213 co-sponsors, the bill will move to the Senate next, where its passage is not as much of a certainty, experts say.
“From a public health perspective, this bill is a very bad idea,” said Jon Vernick, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. "States that do today a better job of keeping especially high-risk people away from a concealed carry permit would have their law undermined by the law of weaker states."
Right now, there are three options for permits in states: may-issue states, which let local authorities decide who can have the permits; shall-issue states, which give permits to all who apply and pass background checks; or, in some states, no permit is required at all—like Wyoming, Kansas, Alaska, Vermont and West Virginia. Under H.R. 38, residents of those no-permit states could go to shall-issue states or may-issue states with concealed guns.

Opponents say that it takes away states' rights to regulate, and that the increase of guns will be a challenge for law enforcement. “The best available research we have demonstrates that making it easier to carry a concealed weapon in public increases violence,” Vernick said.
.
Seventeen state attorneys general sent a letter to congressional leadership on Tuesday, urging them to oppose the bill. Should the bill pass the Senate and receive a presidential stamp of approval, a possible next step could be attorneys general taking the bill to federal court.
“With the worst shooting in American history fresh in our memory, we urge you and your colleagues to reject these ill-conceived bills that would override local public safety decisions and endanger our communities and law enforcement officers,” they wrote in their letter, referring to the Las Vegas massacre. (and now with this shooting in Florida??)

If you have "on demand cable" check out this 10 min interview of the arrogant guy pushing this.

DIRTY HARRY Loc: Hartland, Michigan

TRUMP DEREGULATED GUN laws allowing mental patients to own guns and much recent gun legislation was written by the NRA. Now the government claims concern. Oh really?

gnawbone Loc: Southern Indiana

Please source your comment.

gnawbone Loc: Southern Indiana

The problem IS people. A lot of people, here UHH and other places, have a lot easy solutions - background checks is one of them. I own several guns and have never been able to buy any of them without a background check, so that suggested "fix" has always been a mystery to me.

But more importantly is that, as a society, we've lost our humanity. There were a $h!t load of guns 40-50 years ago WITHOUT mass school, concert, or church shootings. So, what has changed........... Maybe the hand-wringers and their sympathy for dangerous people (this Cruz character had the police at his house 39 times in 7 years (source: https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/deputies-called-to-suspected-shooters-home-39-times-over-seven-years/). Read the article and tell me if the gun was the problem or if our societal approach to problems is the problem. Ask yourself why people like this guy were able to pull this massacre off. Here is a video of a guy that reported Cruz back in September- http://www.sunherald.com/news/local/crime/article200281739.html - what really pi$$es me off about it that in the video this guy said that the FBI was at his house 2 HOURS after the Florida shooting asking questions about Cruz - you don't suppose Cruz was at the top of the 'do nothing' FBIs list? The FBI has a couple hundred agents and lawyers chasing a hoax instead of taking care of what everyone around the country is hollering about today .... why?

When we call murdering 13 people "workplace violence", or have millions of kids on mind altering drugs, effectively the absence of the death penalty, etc. - then what are we doing?

And when 8 years later we're "reviewing" Nidal Hasson's case when we KNOW damned well he did it - at some point we define the value of life. We make excuses for too many evil acts and send a powerful message.

Your point is taken - Indy, Chicago, Baltimore etc. - why? If any gov't official tried to solve the issue the howling from the hand-wringers would be deafening. I have my own theories about why government has taken a kid glove approach to crime but I'd just be called "crazy" if I 'went there'.

And for those of you that are using the word "he", we know who you mean. "He" has been President for 1 year and when I think about all of this I seem to remember that this stuff was going on long before "he" was elected. There was another "he" that was President for 8 years that did nothing, either. Why, or why not? For a gov't solution it takes more than a President asking or demanding something (see 1/2009-1/2017). And before you blame the Congress, both sides have had complete control (House, Senate, President) in the last 9 years. And please don't tell me it's the NRA - they have zero power amongst honest people....

There are approx. 400,000,000 guns in the US - tell me what law you want to pass (that we don't already have) that will fix the people that pick up the gun for evil purposes. I don't think there is one - it is already against the law to murder someone .... sooooo .... How about we confiscate all guns - impossible but I'll humor the thought. Then what - they blow up the whole school and kill 500-600? Don't misinterpret what I just typed - I did NOT just say killing 17 is OK or better - simply that I fear what path evil people will go down next.

There is so much more to this 'problem' than background checks, mental health treatment, "see something - say something", etc. - there is no simple answer and anyone that thinks "if we only did xxxx this would stop" is simply hallucinating. We have to change who we are - we are so polarized right now the solution is a long, long way off. The agitators have been successful - we're fight against each other when we all really want, in the end, is the same thing (certainly, a different approach but the same outcome).

jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana

Well said, well said!

DIRTY HARRY Loc: Hartland, Michigan

Trump Undid Obama Rule That Added Mentally Ill People to Gun Check Register
Pause Thursday highlighting the mental illness of the man charged in the deadly mass shooting at a Florida high school has angered gun control advocates who point to an Obama-era gun checks regulation he repealed last year.
“So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!,” Trump wrote in the tweet.
The tweet suggests the man, 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz who is the suspected gunman, should have been reported. (He was by at least one man, who reported him to the FBI.) The tweet also sparked an outcry amongst gun control advocates who noted that Trump repealed an initiative last February that that would have made it harder for people with mental illness to buy a gun.
The Obama-era regulation, which was enacted after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System. The measure would have affected about 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs.

http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/trump-shooting-mental-illness/

DIRTY HARRY Loc: Hartland, Michigan

This Country has added, removed, and modified Constitutional Amendments over the life of our existence. Maybe the Second Amendment has out lived is usefulness (I know I'm going to be labeled an asshole liberal .. HAS NOTHING TO WITH IT). The Gun community hasn't done anything to fix this problem so maybe you need to be shaken up a bit... DO SOMETHING ABOUT KEEPING YOUR PRECIOUS GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF ASS HOLES AND MENTALLY ILL.When you were a kid and one of your brothers, sisters, or classmates acted up and you mom or teacher wanted to know who and no one would fees-up, YOUR mom or teacher would punish everyone ... maybe that a fear you guys should live under for a while.. you can';t have it all your way.... ANY MORE!

DIRTY HARRY Loc: Hartland, Michigan

Placing limits on just what people can own and get a hold of might help.Never had this problem when I was a kid, but then not everyone had a gun and hand guns were harder to get..Again...Where does "The right to bare arms" end? A 50 mm sniper rifle with a 2 mile range, a Gatling gun off an A-10 Warthog, anti-tank rockets, anti-aircraft rockets, a light saber? Or is it just whatever I can afford along with a "RAMBO" video for training?

Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV

Very well said!

Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV

Very well said. ps ignore my last post..that last was nonsense

Hyperhad Loc: Thunder Bay, Canada

Nobody here, or anywhere, thinks there are any easy answers to this US issue. No, banning or confiscating guns (this would lead to civil war, in my opinion), is not the answer. If they do think that is the solution, their are simply being naive. To say that this issue is complex is an understatement. There is no, single change in law that would fix this. This is part of the problem.

Background checks are just one step in the right direction. Unfortunately, not every state has such requirements. And, what is involved in the background checks? How "deep" do they go" I have posted what is involved in our country. Criminal activity, mental health, physical health, character references, family history. This process takes several weeks to complete. The RCMP digs deep. It is one step. Out system is far from perfect either. These new laws were enacted after a mass murder in our country in Montreal on December 6, 1989. 14 women were murdered by a person who claimed that "feminists had ruined his life". That horrific act triggered a country-wide outcry. New laws were enacted, requiring sweeping changes to our laws relating to guns. Those laws remain mostly in place to this day. We have still had some mass shootings in Canada since that day. So no one change is a panacea for all the ills. Thankfully, they are still a rare occurrence here.

You are absolutely correct in saying that we, as a society, have lost our humanity. Our solution, at all levels of society, is not to address the root causes of the behaviour, but to simply write a law, ban an item, send someone to jail. We don't have the will (or interest) to talk about WHY the person did or does what they do. We just punish, and pat ourselves on the back for "getting criminals off the streets". But what put them there in the first place? We need to look at how children are educated. We need to help the most helpless in society, the mentally ill, the working, or not working, poor. We need to take a hard look at our social support systems. Why are they failing? This is part of the problem.

The are many examples or law enforcement at all levels failing to use and act in the intelligence information they have. This latest mass murder, as you point out, was preventable. The FBI KNEW this would-be murderer was trouble, and had a lot of proof of his potential to do great harm. I don't know why they did not act. Perhaps fear of a backlash from those you call "hand wringers", who cite freedom of expression, and protest the arrest of an "innocent" man before he has done anything concrete? This is part of the problem.

Yes, the trend to not call something what it is, ie. "workplace violence", instead of mass-murder changes the perception of what occurred. Did you notice that Trump did not mention guns once? This is part of the problem.

Children have access to video games that are almost identical to those used by the Military to train soldiers to shoot in realistic situations. Playing these sort of video games "normalizes" the violent acts that are played out over and over again. Children play these games for hours every day. They can play with a friend beside them, or as part of a group comprised of others from around the world. After enough of this sort of "play", they become inured to violent acts committed using guns. There is still a lot of debate over the effect that video games have on children. There needs to be a lot more. Then, changes need to be made. And, we all know that there will be push-back from the gaming industry. This is part of the problem.

Victims have less rights than criminals. We are so concerned that someone will be treated contrary to their "rights", that we bend too far the other way, victim-blaming. The needs to change. This is part of the problem.

Trump's predecessor, President Obama, was blocked at every turn by the GOP. Yes, he certainly should and could have done more to push back. It was so frustrating for me, not even a US citizen, to see, day after day, Republicans stonewall every move Obama made. And it was equally frustrating to watch, day after day, the Democrats not fight back in an effective way. Voters need to hold their representatives to account, and speak out, make themselves heard. Politicians need to start listening to their constituents, the people who elected them in the first place. This is part of the problem.

Voter apathy, ignorance of the issues, making decisions informed by real issues, not hyperbolic rhetoric. This is part of the problem.

Industry lobby groups pour millions of dollars into the pockets of politicians to protect their specific "special interests". These include many groups and industries, not just the NRA. This is part of the problem.

Your last paragraph sums it up well. There are no easy answers to this issue. There is no quick fix. There needs to be a sea change, a major shift amongst all citizens and politicians on this issue. We need the will to begin the task to address this out of control horror. We can no longer just sit back and say "oh, what a shame for those poor people. Someone should do something". We are all that someone. We all need to get off our collective asses and speak out. Demand change starting at basic social programs to address and work at stopping the deep-rooted causes of much of the ills of our society. Knee-jerk responses do not work. Find out why people do this, and work to change the cause. It is too late to act after the fact. This is part of the problem.

Causing division amongst your enemies is a classic way to win a "war". Make no mistake, this is a war. Misinformation, claiming "fake news" at every turn, dividing people wherever you can. This is how it is done. As you say so well, we all want the same thing, a safe place to live and raise our families. To live in a free and democratic society where everyone is able to speak, and be heard. To speak to our politicians about issues we feel strongly about, and have them act on the people's behalf, and no other.

This will take a lot of hard work. There is still going to be division amongst groups with conflicting views on any issue. At the end, we just need to keep one thing foremost in our hearts and minds. We all want our children to be safe. We want to be safe. We want to be heard by our government. We want equal opportunities to succeed in our lives, and to leave a better world for our children.

Your constitution sums it up perfectly: "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". It all comes down to that. A simple phrase, but very difficult to achieve.