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Foundation of exposure
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Dec 18, 2017 13:34:30   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
IMO the foundation would be that you learn how each element (shutter speed, aperture, ISO) affects the image - not just light and dark, but depth of field, motion and noise.

You learn that many combinations of those three elements give you exactly the same exposure* and you learn what happens when you only change one of the elements (exposure compensation). You also learn how your camera measures light and dark and why it suggests, or selects, certain settings.

Someone with a foundation of exposure knowledge would not ask "What settings should I used for xxx" unless it is a relatively unusual occasion (eclipse, northern lights, night sports) and would never wonder why their photos were blurry (if the problem was motion, either by the photographer or the subject). There would be no need to ask how to get a background to go out of focus, or the opposite - why the background is not sharp.

*learn what a "stop" is:
https://photographylife.com/what-are-exposure-stops-in-photography

btw, I still find it odd when someone says, "Your shutter speed is too slow to capture a bird in flight; raise your ISO." To me that's like saying, If your home is too hot with the furnace set at 78, open the window

If shutter speed is too slow for a subject, you increase the shutter speed and then work out the rest of the exposure (or let the camera do it if in shutter priority). Maybe 'cause I was raised on film where the was no "changing ISO" (yeah OK, except for push processing)?
IMO the foundation would be that you learn how eac... (show quote)


Excellent comments from Linda!

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Dec 18, 2017 15:12:28   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
I always find it interesting that so many people seem comfortable with using Av, Tv or P mode and Exposure Compensation but are not comfortable with using manual (M). To me EC is no different that changing one of the variables in Manual mode, but perhaps easier if the LIGHT conditions are changing rapidly. But Manual does give you the advantage to change either Aperture, Shutter Speed or Both.... After all a Stop or a Stop. EC is also just changing the variable in the equation, yet it seems people think there is some EC magic it often seems.

Best,
Todd Ferguson

Reply
Dec 18, 2017 15:27:34   #
BebuLamar
 
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
I always find it interesting that so many people seem comfortable with using Av, Tv or P mode and Exposure Compensation but are not comfortable with using manual (M). To me EC is no different that changing one of the variables in Manual mode, but perhaps easier if the LIGHT conditions are changing rapidly. But Manual does give you the advantage to change either Aperture, Shutter Speed or Both.... After all a Stop or a Stop. EC is also just changing the variable in the equation, yet it seems people think there is some EC magic it often seems.

Best,
Todd Ferguson
I always find it interesting that so many people s... (show quote)


Because they never use it. Although I do use A mode but whenever the exposure has to be different from the meter indicates then I always switch to manual. I never use the EC.

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Dec 18, 2017 18:00:36   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
The range of light of the scene is broken up into Zones. Zone 0 is black and devoid of any detail. Zone X is pure white also devoid of any details. In the middle is Zone V or middle gray. This is important to remember, as every properly working light meter will measure brightness and indicate an exposure that will place that brightness in Zone V.

For This Discussion Spot Metering Is Used

The basic or starting foundation for exposure is determined thus:
Basic f/stop = 1/square root of the ISO

Basic Shutter Speed = 1/number of foot candles

This will place the part of the scene metered in Zone V. This is an inherent characteristic of light meters. Changing either shutter speed or f/stop will place that part of the scene in a different Zone, darker with less exposure and brighter with more.

So, if we are shooting a scene using ISO 125. The basic f/stop is f/11 (11^2=122, which is close enough)
Spot metering a part of the scene indicates that the brightness is 250 ft-candles. For this example, the basic shutter speed and f/stop combination would be 1/250@f/11.

If we were to change the shutter speed to 1/500 that metered part of the scene would now be placed in Zone IV. Similarly if we were to change the f/stop to f/16, again the metered part of the scene would then be placed in Zone IV.

With black and white film, the idea is to spot meter and place the darkest part of the scene in Zone III and see where the brightest part of the scene falls. This will determine the amount of time needed to develop the film to achieve the necessary tonal range of the negative to match the paper on which the print is to be made.

With digital, the situation is just the opposite. After determining the individual camera's capability to capture highlights and still maintain details in those highlights, one can spot meter the brightest part of the scene and increase the exposure to place that part of the scene in Zone VIII or IX, thus maintaining some details in the brightest part of the image.

I posted three articles exploring the basics of exposure and why a triangle is not the optimum way to think about the relationship of shutter speed and f/stop combined with ISO. You can find them here.

Exposure and How It Works - A Beginner's Guide
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-484554-1.html

More Exposure and How It Works - A Beginner's Guide
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-484826-1.html

Finishing Up Exposure and How It Works - A Beginner's Guide
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-485845-1.html

For further reference:
"A Memorial Volume Containing an Account of the Photographic Researches of Ferdinand Hurter & Vero C. Driffield : being a reprint of their published papers, together with a history of their early work and a bibliography of later work on the same subject" - Authored by the Royal Photographic Society of Great Britain

"The Negative" - Ansel Adams

Although these references discuss film sensitivity and processing, there is some correlation to digital. "The Negative" discusses the foundation of exposure.
--Bob

AllenDpics wrote:
I have been reading here about authors who write about the exposure triangle or the renamed photographic triangle by Bryan Peterson, and have seen where some of you Hogs are critical of their avoiding the foundation of exposure. Was particularly reading this thread.

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-477424-3.html

I would like someone to define “foundation of exposure”
I am very interested.
Thanks

Reply
Dec 18, 2017 19:06:42   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
rmalarz wrote:
The range of light of the scene is broken up into Zones. Zone 0 is black and devoid of any detail. Zone X is pure white also devoid of any details. In the middle is Zone V or middle gray. This is important to remember, as every properly working light meter will measure brightness and indicate an exposure that will place that brightness in Zone V.

For This Discussion Spot Metering Is Used

The basic or starting foundation for exposure is determined thus:
Basic f/stop = 1/square root of the ISO

Basic Shutter Speed = 1/number of foot candles

This will place the part of the scene metered in Zone V. This is an inherent characteristic of light meters. Changing either shutter speed or f/stop will place that part of the scene in a different Zone, darker with less exposure and brighter with more.

So, if we are shooting a scene using ISO 125. The basic f/stop is f/11 (11^2=122, which is close enough)
Spot metering a part of the scene indicates that the brightness is 250 ft-candles. For this example, the basic shutter speed and f/stop combination would be 1/250@f/11.

If we were to change the shutter speed to 1/500 that metered part of the scene would now be placed in Zone IV. Similarly if we were to change the f/stop to f/16, again the metered part of the scene would then be placed in Zone IV.

With black and white film, the idea is to spot meter and place the darkest part of the scene in Zone III and see where the brightest part of the scene falls. This will determine the amount of time needed to develop the film to achieve the necessary tonal range of the negative to match the paper on which the print is to be made.

With digital, the situation is just the opposite. After determining the individual camera's capability to capture highlights and still maintain details in those highlights, one can spot meter the brightest part of the scene and increase the exposure to place that part of the scene in Zone VIII or IX, thus maintaining some details in the brightest part of the image.

I posted three articles exploring the basics of exposure and why a triangle is not the optimum way to think about the relationship of shutter speed and f/stop combined with ISO. You can find them here.

Exposure and How It Works - A Beginner's Guide
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-484554-1.html

More Exposure and How It Works - A Beginner's Guide
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-484826-1.html

Finishing Up Exposure and How It Works - A Beginner's Guide
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-485845-1.html

For further reference:
"A Memorial Volume Containing an Account of the Photographic Researches of Ferdinand Hurter & Vero C. Driffield : being a reprint of their published papers, together with a history of their early work and a bibliography of later work on the same subject" - Authored by the Royal Photographic Society of Great Britain

"The Negative" - Ansel Adams

Although these references discuss film sensitivity and processing, there is some correlation to digital. "The Negative" discusses the foundation of exposure.
--Bob
The range of light of the scene is broken up into ... (show quote)



Reply
Dec 18, 2017 19:22:46   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Thanks for the thumbs, TOD.
--Bob
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:

Reply
Dec 18, 2017 21:24:06   #
AllenDpics Loc: Williamsburg Virginia
 
rmalarz wrote:
The range of light of the scene is broken up into Zones. Zone 0 is black and devoid of any detail. Zone X is pure white also devoid of any details. In the middle is Zone V or middle gray. This is important to remember, as every properly working light meter will measure brightness and indicate an exposure that will place that brightness in Zone V.

For This Discussion Spot Metering Is Used

The basic or starting foundation for exposure is determined thus:
Basic f/stop = 1/square root of the ISO

Basic Shutter Speed = 1/number of foot candles

This will place the part of the scene metered in Zone V. This is an inherent characteristic of light meters. Changing either shutter speed or f/stop will place that part of the scene in a different Zone, darker with less exposure and brighter with more.

So, if we are shooting a scene using ISO 125. The basic f/stop is f/11 (11^2=122, which is close enough)
Spot metering a part of the scene indicates that the brightness is 250 ft-candles. For this example, the basic shutter speed and f/stop combination would be 1/250@f/11.

If we were to change the shutter speed to 1/500 that metered part of the scene would now be placed in Zone IV. Similarly if we were to change the f/stop to f/16, again the metered part of the scene would then be placed in Zone IV.

With black and white film, the idea is to spot meter and place the darkest part of the scene in Zone III and see where the brightest part of the scene falls. This will determine the amount of time needed to develop the film to achieve the necessary tonal range of the negative to match the paper on which the print is to be made.

With digital, the situation is just the opposite. After determining the individual camera's capability to capture highlights and still maintain details in those highlights, one can spot meter the brightest part of the scene and increase the exposure to place that part of the scene in Zone VIII or IX, thus maintaining some details in the brightest part of the image.

I posted three articles exploring the basics of exposure and why a triangle is not the optimum way to think about the relationship of shutter speed and f/stop combined with ISO. You can find them here.

Exposure and How It Works - A Beginner's Guide
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-484554-1.html

More Exposure and How It Works - A Beginner's Guide
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-484826-1.html

Finishing Up Exposure and How It Works - A Beginner's Guide
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-485845-1.html

For further reference:
"A Memorial Volume Containing an Account of the Photographic Researches of Ferdinand Hurter & Vero C. Driffield : being a reprint of their published papers, together with a history of their early work and a bibliography of later work on the same subject" - Authored by the Royal Photographic Society of Great Britain
,
"The Negative" - Ansel Adams

Although these references discuss film sensitivity and processing, there is some correlation to digital. "The Negative" discusses the foundation of exposure.
--Bob
The range of light of the scene is broken up into ... (show quote)


I want to thank you for this information. I think you nailed it as to what “foundation of exposure” is. I have a lot of study and practice ahead of me.
Thanks Bob

Reply
 
 
Dec 19, 2017 06:12:10   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
You're quite welcome, Allen.
--Bob
AllenDpics wrote:
I want to thank you for this information. I think you nailed it as to what “foundation of exposure” is. I have a lot of study and practice ahead of me.
Thanks Bob

Reply
Dec 19, 2017 06:19:26   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
The FOUNDATION of Exposure? Light. Or more specifically, a selected limitation of light.

Reply
Dec 22, 2017 21:21:34   #
wj cody Loc: springfield illinois
 
once you understand "available dark" and learn to manipulate your exposure with regard to obtaining the greatest possible detail without blowing out the highlights, you will be on your way. - good luck.

Reply
Dec 22, 2017 21:30:06   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Good luck to you, as well.
--Bob

wj cody wrote:
once you understand "available dark" and learn to manipulate your exposure with regard to obtaining the greatest possible detail without blowing out the highlights, you will be on your way. - good luck.

Reply
 
 
Jan 4, 2018 12:19:27   #
wj cody Loc: springfield illinois
 
rmalarz wrote:
Good luck to you, as well.
--Bob


yes, isn't it fun?

Reply
Jan 4, 2018 21:12:46   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
I always find it interesting that so many people seem comfortable with using Av, Tv or P mode and Exposure Compensation but are not comfortable with using manual (M). To me EC is no different that changing one of the variables in Manual mode, but perhaps easier if the LIGHT conditions are changing rapidly. But Manual does give you the advantage to change either Aperture, Shutter Speed or Both.... After all a Stop or a Stop. EC is also just changing the variable in the equation, yet it seems people think there is some EC magic it often seems.

Best,
Todd Ferguson
I always find it interesting that so many people s... (show quote)

I avoid "M" mode simply because it requires that I do work which can be done by automation. I'd rather have automation make exposure right, freeing brain activity to concentrate on composition.

Reply
Jan 4, 2018 21:34:21   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
IMO the foundation would be that you learn how each element (shutter speed, aperture, ISO) affects the image - not just light and dark, but depth of field, motion and noise.

You learn that many combinations of those three elements give you exactly the same exposure* and you learn what happens when you only change one of the elements (exposure compensation). You also learn how your camera measures light and dark and why it suggests, or selects, certain settings.

Someone with a foundation of exposure knowledge would not ask "What settings should I used for xxx" unless it is a relatively unusual occasion (eclipse, northern lights, night sports) and would never wonder why their photos were blurry (if the problem was motion, either by the photographer or the subject). There would be no need to ask how to get a background to go out of focus, or the opposite - why the background is not sharp.

*learn what a "stop" is:
https://photographylife.com/what-are-exposure-stops-in-photography

btw, I still find it odd when someone says, "Your shutter speed is too slow to capture a bird in flight; raise your ISO." To me that's like saying, If your home is too hot with the furnace set at 78, open the window

If shutter speed is too slow for a subject, you increase the shutter speed and then work out the rest of the exposure (or let the camera do it if in shutter priority). Maybe 'cause I was raised on film where the was no "changing ISO" (yeah OK, except for push processing)?
IMO the foundation would be that you learn how eac... (show quote)

I used film for forty years, so like you I am most comfortable fixing ISO first. However, as cameras become increasingly capable at higher ISO values, I am becoming more comfortable with what Pentax calls "TAv" mode - I set aperture to get DOF I want, I set shutter speed to stop motion, and then camera sets ISO to get proper exposure. My next camera purchase will get me a camera which handles higher ISO values gracefully.

Reply
Jan 24, 2018 00:18:39   #
wj cody Loc: springfield illinois
 
rehess wrote:
I used film for forty years, so like you I am most comfortable fixing ISO first. However, as cameras become increasingly capable at higher ISO values, I am becoming more comfortable with what Pentax calls "TAv" mode - I set aperture to get DOF I want, I set shutter speed to stop motion, and then camera sets ISO to get proper exposure. My next camera purchase will get me a camera which handles higher ISO values gracefully.


i use the lowest asa/iso i can get away with on my subjects.

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