Brucej67 Loc: Cary, NC

I also found that Luminar's new release for 2018 does a superb job, take a look at these training videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhJnJXTL6Y&list=PLllFqBuTM0WI9pAvFw8e3ch5RLF2ojho9 they offer some items that ON1 does not offer. I use all of these (ON1 and Luminar) as plug-in in Photoshop.

Brucej67 Loc: Cary, NC

Elements lacks features that Photoshop handles such as 14 and 16 bit processing and ability to record actions and to many more to mention here.

pbcbob Loc: Delray Beach, FL

I started with Paintship Pro about 15 years ago and am still using it. I sort of enjoy getting the latest version every year or so. There is very little if anything in Photoshop that is not in Paintshop. Elements never had Curves which is where I start most processing.
There are countless ways to go, all of which can give good results. Thanks for listening.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

If you are using Bridge, that's part of Photoshop. And if you are subscribing to Photoshop CC, then you are also entitled to Lightroom CC. It's included in the subscription price. All you have to do is download and install it.

Lightroom is a MUCH better organizing and cataloging tool than Bridge.... and WAY FASTER.

Played around with some Nik programs installed as Photoshop plug-ins, but wasn't all that impressed. For example, I find Imagenomic Noiseware to be more effective than Nik Dfine.... at least with my particular cameras. Nik also will eventually fade away or run into compatibility issues, too, I imagine.... Since Google no longer supports it. (Unless someone buys it from them and updates it.)



I hope so... but doubt it. I've completed a half dozen or more of those surveys over the years and never seen much responsiveness from Adobe.

I am looking for alternative software, too... Right now LR6 and PS CS6 continue to work for me. But it's just a matter of time... sooner or later I'll get a camera or computer operating system they aren't compatible with. I am unlikely to subscribe to the CC versions.... am rather sick of the Adobe "attitude" toward their customers.

I'm afraid I'll miss some of the plug-ins for Lightroom and Photoshop that I use frequently, too (for example some uploaders for LR that help with organizing online galleries and save me a lot of time). I don't know that similar will be available for other photo catalogers and editors.

jcolton

I took over one of my son's bedroom for my photography when he left for college. No there is a hole in the plasterboard about 6 inches in diameter from pounding my head against the wall trying to learn photoshop. It was worth it though. Now I tutor photoshop to other members of my camera club. If you can find one, a tutor is the best way to learn because the tutor can immediately recognize when you're heading off in the wrong direction.

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

AVS Photo Editor is not free software, but free trial software. After the end of the trial period, you will need to pay to continue using it.

granbob Loc: SW Wisc; E Iowa; W Illinois

Hello Suntouched, I was too thrifty, frugal, cheap to go the monthly rental route years ago so I have the standalone of LR and PS (Elements) and in the years since that purchase have recouped the purchase price. I am able to do the things I need with each but continue to gradually learn a few new processing methods. My cameras are a D300 and D700 and both also meet my needs well. If I ever upgrade those bodies, I will be facing another decision, but thus far, I'm happy with what I have and the choices made.
May you enjoy bright days of shadow limited light

SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont

If you are using PS CC, then you also have LR Classic CC. Have you tried LR as a substitute for both Bridge and Camera Raw? People say that LR and ACR are the same, but they are not truly the same. Perhaps it is the user interface, but I never could understand ACR, while LR I do understand. And LR is a powerful organizer, as well as a decent editing program. There will still be a learning curve, but there is so much information out there, it ought to be reasonably efficient to find answers to questions.

As for PSE, if you are used to PS, you will be disappointed if the functions you like to use are missing! I tried PSE a good while back, and could never understand it. Tried LR and love it. Had to buy a book and use some online tutorials, but it was a great program to use. Even without reading a book, etc., the "sliders" made it possible to adjust settings so easily! That made it possible to use the program at the same time as learning more about how to use it.

When the subscription came out, I had reached the point where I wanted more advanced tools, especially layers. So I signed up and have never regretted it. Because of my experience with PSE, I was not sure if I would get along with PS, but the free trial helped to settle that situation. Not trying to handle it all at once was key - I decided to make my learning less overwhelming by tackling one function at a time. Of course there is overlap, so other things creeped in. Still learning! And the better I get at editing with PS, the more I like it. Not because I like sitting at the computer all day, but because I love to see the metamorphosis of my caterpillar into a butterfly...

tdekany Loc: Oregon

You missed the news recently that announced DXO purchasing NIK.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Are you aware that Elements uses the same Adobe Camera Raw "engine" as Photoshop and Lightroom, and that when you shoot and work with RAW files in Elements you actually ARE actually working in 16 bit mode? There's a lot of incorrect info floating around about that. (Note: Cameras shoot 14 bit, but the software interpolates it as 16 bit.)

ACR in Photoshop is a separate module that can be updated independently from the rest of the program. ACR in both Elements and Lightroom is fully "embedded" in those programs, so when an ACR update is done you need to download and install the entire program.

The "8 bit limitation" of Elements means that some filters and functions aren't accessible until after a RAW file has been converted (the same is true in Photoshop, though to a lesser degree)... and, most notably, that you can't SAVE image files as 16 bit TIFFs or PSDs. But the vast majority of uses should be saved in an 8 bit format anyway.

16 bit is most important when doing editing such as exposure adjustments, tweaking contrast, retouching gradients, etc... and so long as you're working from a RAW file, that's what you're already doing in Elements.

The vast majority of non-commercial image uses require or are best done with an 8 bit file of a common type, such as a JPEG. If you're printing at home with an inkjet, there's no benefit to 16 bit and it may not be possible with some printers. Even if it's possible, it will merely slow down the printing job. And if you're sending images out to a printing service, many of them require an 8 bit file type.

A shortcoming of Elements 8 bit limitation is that you can't save a file mid-process and then come back to re-open to do more work on it later as a 16 bit file. You can do that with Photoshop. So, in other words, if you don't complete the work on a RAW in Elements and save it, the saved file will be 8 bit.... or if you change your mind about how you edited it after a file has been saved in 8 bit... with Elements you'd have to go back to the original RAW and start over. Where this makes the biggest differences is if you've underexposed an image and need to brighten the image in post-processing.... shadow and gradient detail will hold up better in 16 bit mode, may be lost in 8 bit. But if you've completed that adjustment or if the image is already well-exposed and doesn't require this type of adjustment, then there's not much benefit.

One of the primary commercial reasons to save a 16 bit file type (hence needing Photoshop), is so a customer can later do their own editing of the image.

If, on the other hand, you're shooting JPEGs with your camera, none of the above applies or should be any concern The image has already been reduced to 8 bit mode and it serves no purpose to re-convert it back to 16 bit (which IS NOT possible in Elements, but IS possible in Photoshop... although it generally serves no purpose to do so).

Ultimately, a lot of the "8 bit limitations" of Elements are a myth.

If you've been using Elements and decide to "step up" to Photoshop, you should plan to also install and use Lightroom too. Elements is more a "stand alone" program. Photoshop and Lightroom are not. They are designed to complement each other, sort of like two sides of a coin. For example, Elements has some archive organizing tools that Photoshop lacks... but which can be found in Lightroom. And Elements lets you do editing work using layers and mask... which can't be done in Lightroom, but is possible in Photoshop. So in place of Elements, you are likely to need BOTH LR and PS.

Lightroom and Photoshop also don't have any of the built in support for new users, like those found in Elements. So plan on taking classes, watching tutorials, buying books and studying them to learn to use LR and PS well. Photoshop, in particular, is an extremely complex program that takes some effort to get up to speed using it effectively.

Yankeepapa6 Loc: New York City

Is the glut of post editing options in response to the lousy pictures we take??

tdekany Loc: Oregon

Only if you think that that is the reason people purchase ingredients to make their own burgers instead just getting it at a fast food joint.

Post processing is for getting everything out of the raw files. You can not post process a lousy picture and make it a great one.

Do you also think that is why so many people shoot in manual mode?

It would help if you read up on photography basics. Just a suggestion.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

I always invoke DxO from Lightroom. When it goes to DxO, the most used adjustments I use are Prime Noise removal (only works with RAW files and must be the DxO Elite version), and Micro-Contrast Adjustment. Perhaps a few other sliders as the image dictates. And then back to Lightroom. Rather simple once you have done it. From Lightroom, I can call Photoshop if needed.

I just can't get into limiting myself to 8-bits as in PSE.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Post Processing (inc PS) happened before RAW processing was possible. So it isn't just about RAW. You need to define "lousy" and "great" when describing pictures before declaring that you cannot make lousy into great, because you can - not always, but sometimes - and depending on your skill levels.
What has manual mode got to do with anything - manual mode is just for the masochists.

tdekany Loc: Oregon

What ever the poster figured lousy. So ask him.

As far as making it great. No you can’t, unless the person’s standard is very low.

What I mean by better as in artistically. A snapshot is a snapshot.