Bill Golden Loc: Briarcliff NY

I have had the 1D iii and the 60D. I currently have the 5Diii, 6D and the 7Dii. I liked the 1Diii for closeup subjects. But since I mainly do wildlife photography, I found the 10 megpixels to be inadequate for photographing distant subjects, even with 400 and 600 mm telephoto lenses. I never used a 5Dii but I can tell you both the 5Diii and the 6D have much better resolution than the 1Dii. I have found that the 6D is better in low light than the 5D iii. But if you are looking for rugged construction, I would suggest the 5Diii if you could afford it, or otherwise the 5Dii may be your better choice. My friend has one and is very happy with it. Last I checked, Canon Direct was selling the Refurbished 5Diii for 2,000 which comes with a full year warantee. Refurbs from Canon Direct is how I bought my 3 current cameras. I bought and sold my 1Diii through KEH and it was in excellent condition. I trust KEH and their rating system. I have bought several used cameras from them and would buy a used camera from them again.

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

[quote=Bill Golden]I have had the 1D iii and the 60D.

Bill, more great advice from the voice of experience! Thank you so much for taking the time to write. I have definitely decided to do more research and to likely wait until I can double or possibly triple my budget. I think that is what it is going to take to get the upgrade I am looking for. I do want a FF camera as well but may have to wait awhile.

Bill, I have an additional question for you based on your comments: Please compare the IQ of your 60D crop sensor with your your current 7D crop sensor and was that upgrade a significant improvement for you and if so to what degree? Thanks in advance. Tom

Bill Golden Loc: Briarcliff NY

I currently have the 7D ii and upgraded that from a 7D. In comparing the resolution of the 60D to the 7D and the 7D ii, keep in mind that the 18 megpixels of the 60D and the Original 7D are the same. The advantage of the 7D over the 60D was in FPS, the focusing system and the construction, not resolution. As far as the 7Dii, the resolution is slightly better that the original 7D but hardly noticeable to me. The main advantages of the 7D ii are the improved focusing system and the increase in the FPS. There is a slight improvement in noise reduction but not significant enough in comparison to that of a FF camera. If I were you, I would keep the 60D and get a FF. That way you would have the best of each, the reach of the 60D and the improved image quality and low light capacity of a FF.

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

[quote=Bill Golden]I currently have the 7D ii and upgraded that from a 7D.

That is about what I figured Bill and thanks for the quick response. I am sure each generation is somewhat better than the prior, but then the prior is still every bit as good as it was the day before......I first thought about simply upgrading to a 70D, but decided my 60D would be pretty much the same as to IQ etc. Definitely going with a FF just not yet decided which.....now for the hunt, which can be almost as much fun and educational as the purchase!

sergio

You might want to read this: https://www.shutterbug.com/content/full-frame-vs-crop-sensor-shootout-can-you-spot-difference-these-portraits-video

jeryh Loc: Oxfordshire UK

Hi; I have both cameras; the 5d 2 is a must if you want large size repros. 21MP can't be beat really- as long as you have the horsepower to produce the size you want. The 1d3 is fine, but it is essentially a pro sports camera/ If I wanted to do a large
image such as you mentioned, I really wouldn't use the 1d3. just my opinon, after many years of using both. I print with
a Canon Pro-1 printer. At that size-$$$$$$ !

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Thanks Sergio, I am not getting rid of my 60D as I like it for what it is designed to do but am wondering if I would get better portraits and landscapes as to IQ with FF. I will read your article with interest!

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

[quote=jeryh]Hi; I have both cameras; the 5d 2 is a must if you want large size repros.

Hi Jerry, thanks for info and I agree completely. I did not mean to indicate I would be printing much at that size, rather that I wanted a camera that would give me such capability assuming I could afford one. For such as that I would have to have it printed professionally. My own printer is a Canon Pro-100, which is capable of 13X19 which is more than enough for most of my needs. Since I don't have museum sized walls, lol, 10X14 seems most popular at my house anyway.

Tom

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Mark, I appreciated your correcting me on model of camera in comparison request. You were my very first response to my very first post and I had not yet learned how to post back so the reply would go to your email so you may well have missed my earlier response. Just wanted to say thanks for the input and I have learned a lot about those two camera, many others as well and as to how to properly respond to a post since yesterday! Tom

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Agreed... 1D Mk3 uses a sensor that's in between the size of APS-C (1.6X) and Full Frame (1X). The lens factor for the 1D3 is 1.3X.

1D Mk3 is a 10MP "sports/action" camera... Intro'd in 2007, ISO 100-3200 (expandable to ISO L 50 and H 6400), able to shoot 10 frames per second, with dual image processors and a separate chip driving the 45-point autofocus system, dual memory card slots (1 SD, 1 CF). IMPORTANT (from Wikipedia) "Problems: Issues about 1D Mark III cameras were reported throughout the online photographer communities after the camera's retail launch. These relate to SERVO AF mode, to stripes within the picture, cursor navigation failure, Err 99 messages and sub par low light focus acquisition performance compared to previous models. Canon investigated a few of these issues, and some are believed to be resolved in firmware release 1.1.1, which was released in September 2007.

Most significant of the issues is the autofocus (AF) issue; under certain conditions, (notably warm, bright, sunny days, conditions under which AF usually operates the best) photographer Rob Galbraith has reported poor AF performance.[6] As of October 17, 2007, Canon technical representatives began stating the widely reported auto focus issue is suspected to be caused by an internal submirror assembly that requires replacement on most Cameras with serial numbers between 501001 and 546561[7] This correction has been made in production models dating to sometime shortly before the announcement of the fix.

As of August 2008, some reviewers have continued to note some level of remaining problems with AF both in the EOS-1D Mark III and EOS-1Ds Mark III even after the hardware and firmware fixes noted by Canon.[8]

On March 3, 2009, Canon announced new firmware and a free AF recalibration for the 1D Mark III. Initial reports from owners who have received their camera back from the AF recalibration seem to be largely positive, although there are still some mixed results."

The 1DS Mark III (2007) is a full frame camera that sold concurrent with and is similar to the 1D3. The primary differences between the APS-H and FF versions are that the latter is 21MP, ISO 100-1600 (expandable to L 50 and H 3200), and has a slower 5 fps frame rate. The 1DS3 uses similar 45-pont AF system (though it didn't seem to have the same problems as the 1D3's) and might be called more of a "studio" camera and stayed continued in production for several years after the 1D3 was superseded by the 1D Mark IV.

The 5D Mark II (2008) is full frame and uses the same 21MP sensor as the 1DS3... but offers a different ISO range 100-6400 (expandable to L 50, H1 12800 and H2 25600). Note that this is a much higher ISO range than the 1DS3 offers. It has a slightly slower 4 fps frame rate and uses a much less sophisticated, lower performance 9-point AF system (little or no changes from the earlier, original 5D model). There are 6 "hidden, assist" AF points that can be enabled to operate only in AI Servo mode. Those additional points are not seen in the viewfinder, but essentially increase the size of the center AF point to about what's indicated by the Spot Metering circle engraved on the focus screen. But even with those assist points enabled, the camera is not fast acquiring focus or particularly good tracking movement... not saying it's impossible, just that other cameras handle sports/action shooting better. The 5DII doesn't have dual processors and uses the same processor for imaging and AF operations. It has a single memory card slot (compact flash).

While all three of these cameras have the same shutter speed range from 30 seconds to 1/8000 top speed, the 1D-series models have 1/250 flash sync, while the 5D-series have 1/200. The older 5D-series models' shutters are rated for 100,000 or 150,000 actuations (though many have been known to operate well beyond that)... the 1D-series models typically have used 200,000, 300,000 or higher rated shutters. The latest 1DX Mark II has 450,000 click rated shutter.

The 5D Mark II was the first model to use the LP-E6 lithium batteries now used in many other models (now using fully interchangeable, but slightly higher capacity LP-E6N). The 1D-series models use a much bigger battery that's able to take 2X to 3X more shots per charge and the 1D-series have built-in, non-removable vertical/battery grip. 5DII can optionally be fitted with BG-E6 vertical/battery grip, which allows use of dual LP-E6 batteries to double the camera's shots per charge.

The 5D Mark II with HD Video capability has seen extensive use in the motion picture and television industries.

I am pretty sure all three cameras have "self cleaning" sensors. I know the 5DII does... that was one of the features that caused me to buy mine. The original 5D was often referred to as a "dust magnet" and needed frequent manual sensor cleaning (as did other models without self-cleaning sensors). The new feature on the 5DII largely solved that problem. I would confirm that 1D3 or 1DS3 has the sensor cleaning feature, before considering them.

If looking for a sports/action camera 7D or 7D Mark II (APS-C, 2009 and 2014) actually offer performance similar to 1D3.... 7D can shoot at 8 fps and has a high performance, 19-point AF system. 7D2 can shoot at 10 fps, has a high performance 65-point AF system and has dual processors. Both 7D models have much higher resolution than 1D3 (10MP).... 7D is 18MP and 7D2 is 20MP. They also both have higher ISO range. 7D's is ISO 100-6400, plus H 12800). 7D2's is ISO 100-16000, plus H1 25600 and H2 51200).

If looking for a landscape, portraiture, macro camera... 5DII might serve well for these and similar more sedentary shooting purposes. It's AF system simply is not up to sports/action work (which is the 1D3's forté). Among other things, the 5D Mark III (22MP, 2012) finally got a much upgraded 61-point AF system (further improved in 1DX, 1DX Mark II and 5D Mark IV).

I still have my 5D Mark II... but will soon be updating to 5D Mark IV (30MP) or 5DS (50MP).

Because most of what I shoot is sports/action, I use a pair of 7D Mark II far more frequently than the older full frame camera. And, frankly, the current APS-C cameras such as 7DII and 80D can pretty much match the 5DII's image quality and are able to shoot at even higher ISOs.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Tom, for the few things you have mentioned, I would get the 5ll.
The 1D is a pro a pro body and superior in many ways, but for what you have mentioned you would GREATLY benefit from the more than DOUBLE the mp.
10 mp is just NOT Enough in today's world of camera capability.
The 5ll is an extremely capable camera and shoot very clean as long as you're not shooting fast action because of the low fps and limited focus array.
And yes, DO get rid of that 60D. There is absolutely NO reason to keep it, as long as you own a phone!!!!
Tom, welcome to the Hog and good luck!!!
SS

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Interesting video Sergio. I actually liked about half of the crop sensor photos better than the full frame. Many I could not tell the difference. Also note though that just after the 5 minute mark, he tells us why he likes FF better and gives us the reasons for it. I think he is correct that sensors are closing the gap and perhaps it will not be long before the human eye at least for most of us will not see any difference. Most encouraging for those of us who do not have the money to buy FF, at least not new.
I like my crop camera for the additional length but really want to try a used FF to see regarding portraiture and landscape to see what difference I might can make. Maybe none, but I figure if I buy used and don't pay too much, I can try it for a few months, a year, etc and if I don't think it's worth it I can sell and get most of my investment back. Hopefully I am not kidding myself.....

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Thanks for the informative comments SS! Not quite ready to give up my 60D. We have been through it together and it has given me some great..to me anyway..shots. Still my iphone 7 is quite a gem.....I agree phone cameras have come a long way. I think you have me pegged as to what I want....mostly portraiture......family members, etc and I love landscapes. Not interested in sports photography at all but do love to shoot seagulls, pelicans and other salt water birds etc when at the Florida/Alabama/Mississippi coast. I live in the suburbs of Birmingham, Al, 4 hours north of Pensacola, Fl. Bottom line I am thinking a 5D of the latest series I can comfortable afford, probably a III if I can find one near top of budget. Otherwise a II. What is your opinion of that choice and compared to the highest end 6D that I think I can pay for, probably $2K tops.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

You can find used 5DIIIs now in the $1500 range via private sales. You might want to ask the seller with the 5DIII listed at Birds as Art about the condition and their somewhat unusually low price at $1299, scroll the listings at http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/used-photography-gear-for-sale/

Retired fat guy with a camera Loc: Colorado

I have owned both. I still have the 1D Mark lll. It is a 1.3 crop sensor. The new crops are 1.6. I sold the 5 and bought a 1Ds Mark lll, this model is full frame. I like the pro bodies.
The batteries last forever.They are built like tanks, and have a 300,000 shutter life. I am 64 and the weight of the cameras do not bother me. I fact I like the weight, it doesn't feel like a toy to me.
I like 10 frames a second on the 1D, and 5 frames a second is not bad for a full frame camera. I read every word on the net ever written, about these two cameras. I looked at images taken with them on flicker. I decided that they would be a good fit for me.
I am not into taking pictures in clubs, at concerts so a 7,327,297,198 ISO setting doesn't matter to me. My 1d has no auto focusing issues, I have taken many bird in flight pictures. If there is a problem with the image, it is on me, not the camera. Most have came out tack sharp.
Some will argue 10 mega pixels are not enough. For me, it was the size of the pixels, not how many that count. There are almost endless posts about, how many mega pixels do you need. I suggest you take some time and read some.
You can buy these cameras for pennies on the dollar. They were 5,000 and 6,000 dollar cameras when new. For me, the 1d's were a no brainer.
Honestly, if anything happen to either one, I would replace it with the same model.