An excerpt from a post by CGH Canon:

"Our OP starting this discussion used 1,407 words over 14 paragraphs. Copied over to a Word document and printed on letter-sized paper, it consumes 3-printed pages. And yet, it probably could have been condensed to 3 to 5 paragraphs covering half a page and said the same thing as the long version. I wonder how much his photography differs or resembles his writing? I'm failing to find any examples of his photography work, just several novel length posts .."

Now that's NASTY: I have images all over this site- I guess you were not able to find them. I will be pleased to post a portfolio of my commercial work, portraiture, wedding photography and even a few images from my press days. I won't publish it here in the midst of this pissing contest you have started- so I will make it available in a post elsewhere on the site, for you or anyone else who is interested to peruse at a convenient time.

You took the time to do a word count of my original post and also mentioned the paper usage. What a picayune and unmitigated waste of time. I hope you did not waste more time and and material printing it out! Now you want to pre-criticize my work- sight unseen!

Let me apologize in advance for my vulgarity and this bad reflection on my Brooklyn culture. Get out of mt face! Troll someone else. You are a JERK!

Very truly yours,.

I'm a Critique Freak!


I love critiques- I love to get them, I love to give them. I love to watch them but I ain't gonna do much of this here on the HOG- well- at least in this section. I mean, this place is a MINEFIELD of hateful arguments, cussing, name calling and verbal combat over things impersonal things like a skylight filter, different styles of photography, a flash unit or a lens. Differences of opinion usually don't go down to well on this site- and it happens all the time! So...imagine whats gonna happen if someone makes a kinda negative critique about someone's image. Somebody's gonna come to his or her house under the cover of darkness and murder him or her in their sleep! Well, figuratively anyway- it's a good thing folks don't publish their addresses and use handles instead of names- just in case.

I am not one to offer anyone unsolicited advice unless it is an urgent situation- like I might be at the beach and suddenly shout “DON'T TAKE THAT SPEED-LIGHT INTO THE WATER”! Other than something like that, around here, unsolicited critiques and even advice is at least, ATTEMPTED suicide. I mean, getting “flamed” or banned is the good part! It's even better to be ignored and get some peace!

Seriously...So what's the big deal with critiques? If you are sincerely interested in advancing your photography on an amateur or professional level, critiques are one of the best and most valuable, effective and productive learning and teaching tools as long as the are given and taken constructively, honestly, sincerely, concisely and meaningfully. Antithetically, harsh, derogatory and dismissive critiques and their usually accompanying unpleasant retorts are counterproductive, discouraging, useless and of absolutely no value.

When things go sour, who is at fault, the submitter or the critic? Could be either or both. It takes two to tango and at least two to have a bar fight! There is an old prizefighters expression; “if you can't take a PUNCH, don't get into the ring”! Not that the critic has to throw verbal PUNCHES- honest love-taps work better! So...if you simply just can't take criticism and react badly toward it- just don't do it- but some say “no pain, no gain” so weigh the values in you own mind. There needn't be any pain anyway! Seek out critiques from folks whose work and teachings you admire, aspire to or at least respect. Not everyone is a photographic guru- but personally I value a variety of opinions-even form lay people and my clients. Take each critique for what it is worth as to who it comes from. Look for a consensus of various opinions. Discard harsh or derogatory statements- they are not critiques and have no value.

Many photographers consider themselves artists and resent “rules” or standards in artistic endeavors. Try to look at things objectively and consider the “rules” as a basis, framework or platform for discussions. Everything in photography is debatable but without some structure, there is little to debate. Critics need some criteria in order to explain and express their opinions and analysis. So...for the submitter- all you need to do is submit you images and let the good times roll. Learn what you can and. take honest and sincere, valid and constructive criticism to heart and mind, act on it and apply it to your work.

Oh- DON”T say things like “pull my work apart”- “sock it to me” etc! When you go to the doctor you want a clean bill of heath or a diagnosis and a remedy, not an autopsy- you don't want to be eviscerated- you want an examination, tests, analysis and an accurate professional opinion.

For the critics: Gotta tell y'all- presenting a great critique is an art form in itself, a science and an exercise in honest diplomacy.

A blanket “feel good” kinda “ataboy” critique, even on a image that really needs improvement, is not quite as bad as a nasty critique but it can be equally useless as a learning resource- honesty is definitely the best and most constructive policy. On the “don't list”, obviously do not issue a personally offensive or nasty critique. Di not negatively criticize the style of the photographer, especially if it differs from you own. Instead examine the work based on criteria such as composition, lighting or use of light, viewer impact and story telling content, craftsmanship and presentation, technical issues such as tonality, color balance, saturation, contrast, color harmony, rendition of texture and form, perspective, optical issues and mention the adherence to the so-called rules and creatively well broken rules.

Before anything else, firstly point out the GOOD attributes- good imagery is good imagery! Explain why it is good and why certain approaches or techniques worked. There has got to be something good even if it is just the basic exposure or even the idea or concept even if it did not come to fruition- then you can explain why. A really great critique is accompanied by remedial suggestions and actions that can be taken for improvement of the exiting image or for the “next time”.

Folks do not take well to a scolding, a browbeating or a lecture. I like to phrase things gently and honestly like “I would have liked to see more space around the subject, especially on the left side of the composition”. “This would have been more impactful with a tighter crop”. “You probably have a good file but the images seems “under printed” and all the information in the file or negative did not come through” etc. etc. Sometimes the images suffers something that occurs in final processing. Point out flaws like distortion, wrong choice of focal length, lighting and aesthetic issues in portraiture- troubleshooting is half the effort. Encouragement is so important!

So, you may ask, why am such a “critique freak”? When I started off in professional photography, I was the rookie apprentice in the studio. I was “critiqued “ on everything that I did, including mopping the floor in the darkroom and the washrooms. I loved it- I ate it all up. Was I a glutton for punishment or a masochist? No. I was a kinda poor kid who could not afford photography school as yet and all of this was free education from guys who really knew their onions. I mean- they criticized the ID and passport pictures until I was producing portrait quality in those mug shots. I learned the ropes at a pretty decent rate and begat to shoot weddings at the age of 16. Then they encouraged me (dragged me) to enter the print competitions at out professional photographers association. The judging always included critiques! All the newcomers at the time were attending seminars and master classes and critiques were always a large part of the curriculum. We all wanted to be judged by the big names and important teachers as well as our peers.

My greatest experiences was attending theses judging sessions and watching what happens when a challenges arises, that is, when there is a significant point spread between the judges on the panel. Each judge has to defend his or her argument and the learning just flows out! The most important lesson is that even in the top echelons of master photographers, there are differences of opinions, tastes and even prejudices. Not every opinion is carved in stone and not every opinion is 100% valid. That's why it is not necessary or healthy to become devastated if or when you receive a negative critique. Take your lumps, get on with it and use the ammunition to improve you work. I hate to constantly quote old hackneyed adages
but it is said what doesn't kill you makes you stronger- I think that does apply here.

All of this prepared me for the business of photography. After all that critiquing, it was relatively easy to deal with clients, fussy art directors and purchasing agents- they were virtual pussycats compared to some of my bosses and teachers. Tough taskmasters they were and I am thankful for that. I employ critiquing in all my teaching and training activities. I have judged numerous print competitions and each one was and still is a great learning experience for me as well. I also encourage my students and trainees to try their hand at GIVING critiques. It builds confidence and sharpens their perception. It's fun too.

Best regards, Ed

I'm a Critique Freak!

I love critiques- I love to get them, I love to give them. I love to watch them but I ain't gonna do much of this here on the HOG- well- at least in this section. I mean, this place is a MINEFIELD of hateful arguments, cussing, name calling and verbal combat over things impersonal things like a skylight filter, different styles of photography, a flash unit or a lens. Differences of opinion usually don't go down to well on this site- and it happens all the time! So...imagine whats gonna happen if someone makes a kinda negative critique about someone's image. Somebody's gonna come to his or her house under the cover of darkness and murder him or her in their sleep! Well, figuratively anyway- it's a good thing folks don't publish their addresses and use handles instead of names- just in case.

I am not one to offer anyone unsolicited advice unless it is an urgent situation- like I might be at the beach and suddenly shout “DON'T TAKE THAT SPEED-LIGHT INTO THE WATER”! Other than something like that, around here, unsolicited critiques and even advice is at least, ATTEMPTED suicide. I mean, getting “flamed” or banned is the good part! It's even better to be ignored and get some peace!

Seriously...So what's the big deal with critiques? If you are sincerely interested in advancing your photography on an amateur or professional level, critiques are one of the best and most valuable, effective and productive learning and teaching tools as long as the are given and taken constructively, honestly, sincerely, concisely and meaningfully. Antithetically, harsh, derogatory and dismissive critiques and their usually accompanying unpleasant retorts are counterproductive, discouraging, useless and of absolutely no value.

When things go sour, who is at fault, the submitter or the critic? Could be either or both. It takes two to tango and at least two to have a bar fight! There is an old prizefighters expression; “if you can't take a PUNCH, don't get into the ring”! Not that the critic has to throw verbal PUNCHES- honest love-taps work better! So...if you simply just can't take criticism and react badly toward it- just don't do it- but some say “no pain, no gain” so weigh the values in you own mind. There needn't be any pain anyway! Seek out critiques from folks whose work and teachings you admire, aspire to or at least respect. Not everyone is a photographic guru- but personally I value a variety of opinions-even form lay people and my clients. Take each critique for what it is worth as to who it comes from. Look for a consensus of various opinions. Discard harsh or derogatory statements- they are not critiques and have no value.

Many photographers consider themselves artists and resent “rules” or standards in artistic endeavors. Try to look at things objectively and consider the “rules” as a basis, framework or platform for discussions. Everything in photography is debatable but without some structure, there is little to debate. Critics need some criteria in order to explain and express their opinions and analysis. So...for the submitter- all you need to do is submit you images and let the good times roll. Learn what you can and. take honest and sincere, valid and constructive criticism to heart and mind, act on it and apply it to your work.

Oh- DON”T say things like “pull my work apart”- “sock it to me” etc! When you go to the doctor you want a clean bill of heath or a diagnosis and a remedy, not an autopsy- you don't want to be eviscerated- you want an examination, tests, analysis and an accurate professional opinion.

For the critics: Gotta tell y'all- presenting a great critique is an art form in itself, a science and an exercise in honest diplomacy.

A blanket “feel good” kinda “ataboy” critique, even on a image that really needs improvement, is not quite as bad as a nasty critique but it can be equally useless as a learning resource- honesty is definitely the best and most constructive policy. On the “don't list”, obviously do not issue a personally offensive or nasty critique. Di not negatively criticize the style of the photographer, especially if it differs from you own. Instead examine the work based on criteria such as composition, lighting or use of light, viewer impact and story telling content, craftsmanship and presentation, technical issues such as tonality, color balance, saturation, contrast, color harmony, rendition of texture and form, perspective, optical issues and mention the adherence to the so-called rules and creatively well broken rules.

Before anything else, firstly point out the GOOD attributes- good imagery is good imagery! Explain why it is good and why certain approaches or techniques worked. There has got to be something good even if it is just the basic exposure or even the idea or concept even if it did not come to fruition- then you can explain why. A really great critique is accompanied by remedial suggestions and actions that can be taken for improvement of the exiting image or for the “next time”.

Folks do not take well to a scolding, a browbeating or a lecture. I like to phrase things gently and honestly like “I would have liked to see more space around the subject, especially on the left side of the composition”. “This would have been more impactful with a tighter crop”. “You probably have a good file but the images seems “under printed” and all the information in the file or negative did not come through” etc. etc. Sometimes the images suffers something that occurs in final processing. Point out flaws like distortion, wrong choice of focal length, lighting and aesthetic issues in portraiture- troubleshooting is half the effort. Encouragement is so important!

So, you may ask, why am such a “critique freak”? When I started off in professional photography, I was the rookie apprentice in the studio. I was “critiqued “ on everything that I did, including mopping the floor in the darkroom and the washrooms. I loved it- I ate it all up. Was I a glutton for punishment or a masochist? No. I was a kinda poor kid who could not afford photography school as yet and all of this was free education from guys who really knew their onions. I mean- they criticized the ID and passport pictures until I was producing portrait quality in those mug shots. I learned the ropes at a pretty decent rate and begat to shoot weddings at the age of 16. Then they encouraged me (dragged me) to enter the print competitions at out professional photographers association. The judging always included critiques! All the newcomers at the time were attending seminars and master classes and critiques were always a large part of the curriculum. We all wanted to be judged by the big names and important teachers as well as our peers.

My greatest experiences was attending theses judging sessions and watching what happens when a challenges arises, that is, when there is a significant point spread between the judges on the panel. Each judge has to defend his or her argument and the learning just flows out! The most important lesson is that even in the top echelons of master photographers, there are differences of opinions, tastes and even prejudices. Not every opinion is carved in stone and not every opinion is 100% valid. That's why it is not necessary or healthy to become devastated if or when you receive a negative critique. Take your lumps, get on with it and use the ammunition to improve you work. I hate to constantly quote old hackneyed adages
but it is said what doesn't kill you makes you stronger- I think that does apply here.

All of this prepared me for the business of photography. After all that critiquing, it was relatively easy to deal with clients, fussy art directors and purchasing agents- they were virtual pussycats compared to some of my bosses and teachers. Tough taskmasters they were and I am thankful for that. I employ critiquing in all my teaching and training activities. I have judged numerous print competitions and each one was and still is a great learning experience for me as well. I also encourage my students and trainees to try their hand at GIVING critiques. It builds confidence and sharpens their perception. It's fun too.

Best regards, Ed

Hi Bill,

Good question on the subject and sometimes a difficult question to answer. In general, a snapshot is when we take a shot to have a memory of the place or subject, we don't give a lot of thought to the background, to the colors, most likely not even to the composition, we are not attempting to take a shot that someone might look at and "say, wow, beautiful." Even though a snapshot can be beautiful in some way, I am not saying it cannot be, but the beauty is mostly in the eye of the person who took it. Oftentimes we might take a snapshot of something funny or unique and not with any intent to create art. When we are trying to create a photo that might be called art, we want someone to say "wow, that is beautiful," we take more care, we look carefully at the composition, at the color, at the entire setting, and we normally focus just on the subject that is our intent. We control our camera settings and might even have a vision in our mind about how we want the photography to turn. So, the subject might take up more space in the photograph, we take more care with the background, and the placement of the subject is something we will be more careful about, we might even ask ourselves if the image has a story to tell and are we telling it appropriately. I've included two photos here, a snapshot of two funny pigeons in my yard, and a bird from Florida, an Egret, that I hoped would turn out as an image that portrays the bird as something beautiful and elegant in its flight. (I hope the birds remain safe there!). This is just my response to your question from MY perspective. I think the two photos look very different in their intent. Note, however, that even a snapshot can be well composed and some thought can be given to the background and the placement of the subject.

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For someone who wants to turn out a pic that is just like one they saw in a magazine, critiques, rules, pleasing to the eye, conformity, looks right... - Are fine.

Most artists don't want that. They are using creativity to express emotions and ideas. They want to be original not conformists.

IMO, most non-pro photographers tend toward the artistic approach and are not well served with the conventional "rules of good photography." Such rules produce knee-jerk, predictable, boring results.

-----

You seem to have snoozed on the lengthy content of your own post ...

"Seriously...So what's the big deal with critiques? If you are sincerely interested in advancing your photography on an amateur or professional level, critiques are one of the best and most valuable, effective and productive learning and teaching tools as long as the are given and taken constructively, honestly, sincerely, concisely and meaningfully. Antithetically, harsh, derogatory and dismissive critiques and their usually accompanying unpleasant retorts are counterproductive, discouraging, useless and of absolutely no value. "

And don't be fooled into thinking that I printed that stuff ... There's an awful lot that can be done in seconds with a few keystrokes on computers nowadays ... BTW, my approach to inspecting your topics created may have been faulty. Paging your posts finds pages and pages and pages of pure text, but with a few images interspersed ... My wonder was open-ended. You seem to have put your own bad thoughts into my mouth ...

Tell that to the photographers at National Geographic and the millions of people viewing their work. Standards, and you say "rules of good photography- such rules produce knee-jerk, predictable, boring results". When I spend my time looking at photographs I like certain types of work. Unless I am going through someone in my family's "snapshots" I don't want to go back to the days of ,"hey come over to our house tonight and we can all watch a slide show of our past 3 years of our vacations". On the other hand if someone was asking me to help them with becoming better with their photography I'm always be glad to help. When I was teaching photography I always taught the basics and tried to encourage creativity. I did not want to turn out cookie cutter photographers. As I say, each to their own, but honesty can cause problems. When I see a picture posted on this site and everyone is saying "great picture" and in my mind it isn't I have to wonder what are we as a group doing to help advance the individual. You can blow their horn and it's OK but if you offer constructive criticism you get jumped. I know that they aren't asking you to critique their work, just blow their horn. On the other hand, if someone really got a real picture of "Big Foot" I don't think many would be making remarks such as to color or if the horizon wasn't straight. Maybe we need a section here that is titled "Make me feel good". There are very good postings (pictures) here and I do enjoy so many but I've reached the conclusion that it's not worth the time or trouble to try and help anyone on this site that does not come out and ask to be helped. After all , we are just offering our own opinions.