I'm a "Critique Freak"
Sep 9, 2017 21:59:53 #
I'm a Critique Freak!
I love critiques- I love to get them, I love to give them. I love to watch them but I ain't gonna do much of this here on the HOG- well- at least in this section. I mean, this place is a MINEFIELD of hateful arguments, cussing, name calling and verbal combat over things impersonal things like a skylight filter, different styles of photography, a flash unit or a lens. Differences of opinion usually don't go down to well on this site- and it happens all the time! So...imagine whats gonna happen if someone makes a kinda negative critique about someone's image. Somebody's gonna come to his or her house under the cover of darkness and murder him or her in their sleep! Well, figuratively anyway- it's a good thing folks don't publish their addresses and use handles instead of names- just in case.
I am not one to offer anyone unsolicited advice unless it is an urgent situation- like I might be at the beach and suddenly shout “DON'T TAKE THAT SPEED-LIGHT INTO THE WATER”! Other than something like that, around here, unsolicited critiques and even advice is at least, ATTEMPTED suicide. I mean, getting “flamed” or banned is the good part! It's even better to be ignored and get some peace!
Seriously...So what's the big deal with critiques? If you are sincerely interested in advancing your photography on an amateur or professional level, critiques are one of the best and most valuable, effective and productive learning and teaching tools as long as the are given and taken constructively, honestly, sincerely, concisely and meaningfully. Antithetically, harsh, derogatory and dismissive critiques and their usually accompanying unpleasant retorts are counterproductive, discouraging, useless and of absolutely no value.
When things go sour, who is at fault, the submitter or the critic? Could be either or both. It takes two to tango and at least two to have a bar fight! There is an old prizefighters expression; “if you can't take a PUNCH, don't get into the ring”! Not that the critic has to throw verbal PUNCHES- honest love-taps work better! So...if you simply just can't take criticism and react badly toward it- just don't do it- but some say “no pain, no gain” so weigh the values in you own mind. There needn't be any pain anyway! Seek out critiques from folks whose work and teachings you admire, aspire to or at least respect. Not everyone is a photographic guru- but personally I value a variety of opinions-even form lay people and my clients. Take each critique for what it is worth as to who it comes from. Look for a consensus of various opinions. Discard harsh or derogatory statements- they are not critiques and have no value.
Many photographers consider themselves artists and resent “rules” or standards in artistic endeavors. Try to look at things objectively and consider the “rules” as a basis, framework or platform for discussions. Everything in photography is debatable but without some structure, there is little to debate. Critics need some criteria in order to explain and express their opinions and analysis. So...for the submitter- all you need to do is submit you images and let the good times roll. Learn what you can and. take honest and sincere, valid and constructive criticism to heart and mind, act on it and apply it to your work.
Oh- DON”T say things like “pull my work apart”- “sock it to me” etc! When you go to the doctor you want a clean bill of heath or a diagnosis and a remedy, not an autopsy- you don't want to be eviscerated- you want an examination, tests, analysis and an accurate professional opinion.
For the critics: Gotta tell y'all- presenting a great critique is an art form in itself, a science and an exercise in honest diplomacy.
A blanket “feel good” kinda “ataboy” critique, even on a image that really needs improvement, is not quite as bad as a nasty critique but it can be equally useless as a learning resource- honesty is definitely the best and most constructive policy. On the “don't list”, obviously do not issue a personally offensive or nasty critique. Di not negatively criticize the style of the photographer, especially if it differs from you own. Instead examine the work based on criteria such as composition, lighting or use of light, viewer impact and story telling content, craftsmanship and presentation, technical issues such as tonality, color balance, saturation, contrast, color harmony, rendition of texture and form, perspective, optical issues and mention the adherence to the so-called rules and creatively well broken rules.
Before anything else, firstly point out the GOOD attributes- good imagery is good imagery! Explain why it is good and why certain approaches or techniques worked. There has got to be something good even if it is just the basic exposure or even the idea or concept even if it did not come to fruition- then you can explain why. A really great critique is accompanied by remedial suggestions and actions that can be taken for improvement of the exiting image or for the “next time”.
Folks do not take well to a scolding, a browbeating or a lecture. I like to phrase things gently and honestly like “I would have liked to see more space around the subject, especially on the left side of the composition”. “This would have been more impactful with a tighter crop”. “You probably have a good file but the images seems “under printed” and all the information in the file or negative did not come through” etc. etc. Sometimes the images suffers something that occurs in final processing. Point out flaws like distortion, wrong choice of focal length, lighting and aesthetic issues in portraiture- troubleshooting is half the effort. Encouragement is so important!
So, you may ask, why am such a “critique freak”? When I started off in professional photography, I was the rookie apprentice in the studio. I was “critiqued “ on everything that I did, including mopping the floor in the darkroom and the washrooms. I loved it- I ate it all up. Was I a glutton for punishment or a masochist? No. I was a kinda poor kid who could not afford photography school as yet and all of this was free education from guys who really knew their onions. I mean- they criticized the ID and passport pictures until I was producing portrait quality in those mug shots. I learned the ropes at a pretty decent rate and begat to shoot weddings at the age of 16. Then they encouraged me (dragged me) to enter the print competitions at out professional photographers association. The judging always included critiques! All the newcomers at the time were attending seminars and master classes and critiques were always a large part of the curriculum. We all wanted to be judged by the big names and important teachers as well as our peers.
My greatest experiences was attending theses judging sessions and watching what happens when a challenges arises, that is, when there is a significant point spread between the judges on the panel. Each judge has to defend his or her argument and the learning just flows out! The most important lesson is that even in the top echelons of master photographers, there are differences of opinions, tastes and even prejudices. Not every opinion is carved in stone and not every opinion is 100% valid. That's why it is not necessary or healthy to become devastated if or when you receive a negative critique. Take your lumps, get on with it and use the ammunition to improve you work. I hate to constantly quote old hackneyed adages
but it is said what doesn't kill you makes you stronger- I think that does apply here.
All of this prepared me for the business of photography. After all that critiquing, it was relatively easy to deal with clients, fussy art directors and purchasing agents- they were virtual pussycats compared to some of my bosses and teachers. Tough taskmasters they were and I am thankful for that. I employ critiquing in all my teaching and training activities. I have judged numerous print competitions and each one was and still is a great learning experience for me as well. I also encourage my students and trainees to try their hand at GIVING critiques. It builds confidence and sharpens their perception. It's fun too.
Best regards, Ed
I love critiques- I love to get them, I love to give them. I love to watch them but I ain't gonna do much of this here on the HOG- well- at least in this section. I mean, this place is a MINEFIELD of hateful arguments, cussing, name calling and verbal combat over things impersonal things like a skylight filter, different styles of photography, a flash unit or a lens. Differences of opinion usually don't go down to well on this site- and it happens all the time! So...imagine whats gonna happen if someone makes a kinda negative critique about someone's image. Somebody's gonna come to his or her house under the cover of darkness and murder him or her in their sleep! Well, figuratively anyway- it's a good thing folks don't publish their addresses and use handles instead of names- just in case.
I am not one to offer anyone unsolicited advice unless it is an urgent situation- like I might be at the beach and suddenly shout “DON'T TAKE THAT SPEED-LIGHT INTO THE WATER”! Other than something like that, around here, unsolicited critiques and even advice is at least, ATTEMPTED suicide. I mean, getting “flamed” or banned is the good part! It's even better to be ignored and get some peace!
Seriously...So what's the big deal with critiques? If you are sincerely interested in advancing your photography on an amateur or professional level, critiques are one of the best and most valuable, effective and productive learning and teaching tools as long as the are given and taken constructively, honestly, sincerely, concisely and meaningfully. Antithetically, harsh, derogatory and dismissive critiques and their usually accompanying unpleasant retorts are counterproductive, discouraging, useless and of absolutely no value.
When things go sour, who is at fault, the submitter or the critic? Could be either or both. It takes two to tango and at least two to have a bar fight! There is an old prizefighters expression; “if you can't take a PUNCH, don't get into the ring”! Not that the critic has to throw verbal PUNCHES- honest love-taps work better! So...if you simply just can't take criticism and react badly toward it- just don't do it- but some say “no pain, no gain” so weigh the values in you own mind. There needn't be any pain anyway! Seek out critiques from folks whose work and teachings you admire, aspire to or at least respect. Not everyone is a photographic guru- but personally I value a variety of opinions-even form lay people and my clients. Take each critique for what it is worth as to who it comes from. Look for a consensus of various opinions. Discard harsh or derogatory statements- they are not critiques and have no value.
Many photographers consider themselves artists and resent “rules” or standards in artistic endeavors. Try to look at things objectively and consider the “rules” as a basis, framework or platform for discussions. Everything in photography is debatable but without some structure, there is little to debate. Critics need some criteria in order to explain and express their opinions and analysis. So...for the submitter- all you need to do is submit you images and let the good times roll. Learn what you can and. take honest and sincere, valid and constructive criticism to heart and mind, act on it and apply it to your work.
Oh- DON”T say things like “pull my work apart”- “sock it to me” etc! When you go to the doctor you want a clean bill of heath or a diagnosis and a remedy, not an autopsy- you don't want to be eviscerated- you want an examination, tests, analysis and an accurate professional opinion.
For the critics: Gotta tell y'all- presenting a great critique is an art form in itself, a science and an exercise in honest diplomacy.
A blanket “feel good” kinda “ataboy” critique, even on a image that really needs improvement, is not quite as bad as a nasty critique but it can be equally useless as a learning resource- honesty is definitely the best and most constructive policy. On the “don't list”, obviously do not issue a personally offensive or nasty critique. Di not negatively criticize the style of the photographer, especially if it differs from you own. Instead examine the work based on criteria such as composition, lighting or use of light, viewer impact and story telling content, craftsmanship and presentation, technical issues such as tonality, color balance, saturation, contrast, color harmony, rendition of texture and form, perspective, optical issues and mention the adherence to the so-called rules and creatively well broken rules.
Before anything else, firstly point out the GOOD attributes- good imagery is good imagery! Explain why it is good and why certain approaches or techniques worked. There has got to be something good even if it is just the basic exposure or even the idea or concept even if it did not come to fruition- then you can explain why. A really great critique is accompanied by remedial suggestions and actions that can be taken for improvement of the exiting image or for the “next time”.
Folks do not take well to a scolding, a browbeating or a lecture. I like to phrase things gently and honestly like “I would have liked to see more space around the subject, especially on the left side of the composition”. “This would have been more impactful with a tighter crop”. “You probably have a good file but the images seems “under printed” and all the information in the file or negative did not come through” etc. etc. Sometimes the images suffers something that occurs in final processing. Point out flaws like distortion, wrong choice of focal length, lighting and aesthetic issues in portraiture- troubleshooting is half the effort. Encouragement is so important!
So, you may ask, why am such a “critique freak”? When I started off in professional photography, I was the rookie apprentice in the studio. I was “critiqued “ on everything that I did, including mopping the floor in the darkroom and the washrooms. I loved it- I ate it all up. Was I a glutton for punishment or a masochist? No. I was a kinda poor kid who could not afford photography school as yet and all of this was free education from guys who really knew their onions. I mean- they criticized the ID and passport pictures until I was producing portrait quality in those mug shots. I learned the ropes at a pretty decent rate and begat to shoot weddings at the age of 16. Then they encouraged me (dragged me) to enter the print competitions at out professional photographers association. The judging always included critiques! All the newcomers at the time were attending seminars and master classes and critiques were always a large part of the curriculum. We all wanted to be judged by the big names and important teachers as well as our peers.
My greatest experiences was attending theses judging sessions and watching what happens when a challenges arises, that is, when there is a significant point spread between the judges on the panel. Each judge has to defend his or her argument and the learning just flows out! The most important lesson is that even in the top echelons of master photographers, there are differences of opinions, tastes and even prejudices. Not every opinion is carved in stone and not every opinion is 100% valid. That's why it is not necessary or healthy to become devastated if or when you receive a negative critique. Take your lumps, get on with it and use the ammunition to improve you work. I hate to constantly quote old hackneyed adages
but it is said what doesn't kill you makes you stronger- I think that does apply here.
All of this prepared me for the business of photography. After all that critiquing, it was relatively easy to deal with clients, fussy art directors and purchasing agents- they were virtual pussycats compared to some of my bosses and teachers. Tough taskmasters they were and I am thankful for that. I employ critiquing in all my teaching and training activities. I have judged numerous print competitions and each one was and still is a great learning experience for me as well. I also encourage my students and trainees to try their hand at GIVING critiques. It builds confidence and sharpens their perception. It's fun too.
Best regards, Ed
Sep 9, 2017 22:04:04 #
Sep 9, 2017 23:08:34 #
Fwiw, I agree with you. And yes there are some trolls and argumentative types, but they are greatly outnumbered by some very nice, helpfull people who just don't shout as loud.
Good thread.
Good thread.
Sep 10, 2017 00:14:00 #
Reply to E.L.Shapiro's post. Great post concerning critique. All truisms. I agree with you all the way. Only problem I see is that some of those that need to read this post will pass it by. Thanks for sharing and have a GREAT DAY!
Sep 10, 2017 01:50:00 #
Agreed but then again I agree with most if not all of what you express or expose.
Sep 10, 2017 02:34:51 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I'm a Critique Freak! br br I love critiques- I l... (show quote)
I don't do critique because who am I to judge others work. I don't want critique of my work because it's only for myself and for no one else. I wouldn't careless about what others think about my work.
Sep 10, 2017 04:21:42 #
I agree, one should NEVER take a speedlight into the water!!!
With a set of fully charged batteries, you just might electrocute a fish!!!
That would be a very bad scene!!! .sm09:
SS
With a set of fully charged batteries, you just might electrocute a fish!!!
That would be a very bad scene!!! .sm09:
SS
Sep 10, 2017 04:46:17 #
Sep 10, 2017 06:15:12 #
BebuLamar wrote:
I don't do critique because who am I to judge others work. I don't want critique of my work because it's only for myself and for no one else. I wouldn't careless about what others think about my work.
Could you, then, explain why you are a member?
Sep 10, 2017 06:15:58 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I'm a Critique Freak! br br I love critiques- I l... (show quote)
You tell 'em! Good post!
Sep 10, 2017 06:18:37 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I'm a Critique Freak! br br I love critiques- I l... (show quote)
To summarise - keep it friendly.
Sep 10, 2017 06:23:15 #
Sep 10, 2017 06:32:15 #
Yes, it's hard to understand how people can get so upset and make such nasty comments over camera gear. 
Sep 10, 2017 06:36:15 #
Sep 10, 2017 06:47:34 #
berchman
Loc: South Central PA
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
So...imagine whats gonna happen if someone makes a kinda negative critique about someone's image.
There is an individual here who puts out a picture a day and has written "Comments Welcomed." So I made a comment about how his post processing made some of an individual's skin look bad. He went crazy, accusing me of being someone who was against any post processing, claiming he had laid a trap for people like me by deliberately doing that to the skin, ranting on and on. It seems that the only comments he welcomes are the usual meaningless stuff like "nice shots," "beautiful," etc.
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.