CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

I think you've covered it quite nicely.

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

Image stabilization allows you to shoot the SAME shutter speed at a LOWER ISO, meaning BETTER image quality.

With internal Image Stabilization, that means you can use ANY Sony A or E mount lens on a MODERN A or E mount camera with Image Stabilization and get the benefit of BETTER image quality than someone shooting without it can, thus negating the alleged numerical advantage in lens selection of Canon or Nikon over the other mirrorless manufacturers.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

[quote=CHOLLY]Image stabilization allows you to shoot the SAME shutter speed at a LOWER ISO, meaning BETTER image quality.

No - that would cause underexposure (remember the exposure triangle - if the light remains the same, lowering the ISO requires a change in either shutter speed or aperture to keep the same exposure). The whole purpose of IS/VR is to allow you to avoid the effects of camera shake while shooting at a lower shutter speed. You then compensate for the longer shutter opening with a lower ISO - make sense? Maybe this will help: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-and-solutions/image-stabilization-when-use-it-and-when-turn-it?BI=572&kw=&c3api=0980,144904813854&gclid=Cj0KEQjwmIrJBRCRmJ_x7KDo-9oBEiQAuUPKMnapY3LivdcaukgerbLr7a49Zy-sn-o6Sk6t6iQoDWAaAqcB8P8HAQ

None of this is applicable when shooting at high shutter speeds which negates the effects of camera shake without the use of IS/VR.

Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI

So then price wise:
$1398 A6500
$1599 XT-2
$1929 XT-2 w/grip
$1998 GH5
$1999 EM1ii
$4498...gulp, for the A9

Biggest downside for each (In my opinion)
A6500: Single card slot, not sure I'd want to use this camera in inclement weather.
XT-2: w/o the grip, it's not as fast. Only optical stabilization, so lenses must have it built in...even with it, not quite as good as 5 axis.
XT-2 w/grip: bigger than I would want.
GH5: Video first, then stills. Price vs sensor size.
EM1ii: Price vs sensor size (although I don't find it to be an issue). C-AF Tracking, good, but not as good as the others in this list. C-AF, works great though.
A9: need a second mortgage to purchase it and lenses. Full-frame sensor, so if you need reach (mm) your better off with any of the above.

advocate1982

Not quite right. Image Stabilization doesn't really work well with moving subjects. So great for photo of a hawk sitting on a branch, not so great with a soccer player running down the field.

It's whole claim to fame is that it will let you shoot at slower shutter speeds while still hand holding. But that is a relative point. When I was younger I had no problem using 1/15 second exposures hand held with my 400mm lens and getting sharp images. Of course I also spent hours at the range every day putting bullets down range at targets and being able to keep those groups well within .5 MOA with a rifle, and within a 9 inch group at 50 yards while on the run with a hand gun.

advocate1982

actually if you read the original post it was not specifically about mirror less.

It was about an amateur level camera capable of shooting sports, and what he should be looking for.

He actually had a question mark after mirror less - indicating that not sure if it was a relative question that needed to be met for the purchase.

Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI

yup...saw that...but they also said this:
"Would also like a good camera for general family that is not too large to be unwieldy being a tourist" ...that to me strikes out a traditional dslr.

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TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Then the first question the OP should answer is what size sensor (and its attendant compromises) he needs. Indoor sports is a corner case and one of the most demanding on equipment in terms of high ISO (and low noise) performance because of the high shutter speed required and the typically low light. Although 4/3 and smaller sensors certainly have an advantage in size/weight, their disadvantage is noise at high ISOs. All other things being equal, high ISO noise is inversely proportional to sensor size. No way around it - sensor noise may vary between manufacturers, but larger is quieter at high ISO, hence the reason pro sports shooters typically choose full frame. All else being equal, a FF is quieter at high ISO than an APC which is quieter than a micro 4/3 and so on. Not saying that you can't take great shots with a crop body - there have been plenty displayed here taken with 7D2s and D500s, but for me, personally, I'd be uncomfortable shooting at ISO 10,000 regularly with a 4/3, and that is what is often required. I'm sure people do it, and I'm expecting to see some 4/3 indoor sports shots at ISO 10,000 posted shortly 😀. For me, after a couple of seasons shooting indoor sports in a Variety of venues with a 7D, the noise at ISO 3200 and above was objectionable to me. (Btw, the 7D2 is much better in this respect). That caused me to move to a FF 5D3, which is about 2 stops better and allows me to shoot comfortably at ISOs of 6400-10,000, and occasionally higher without compromising on shutter speed causing blurry shots. But to each his own...

Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI

This is why I shoot a lot with fast glass (primes)...25mm f1.4, 45mm 1.8, 75mm 1.8, 150 f2...they help keep the iso down. With m4/3 it's easy to do this wide open (or stopped down just a notch) and get a nice sharp image with just enough subject isolation, since the lenses perform quite nicely wide open. I rarely have to shoot above 6400.

IBM

From all the write ups on the D7500 that would not be on my list even if it was the last pick in a long line , it has less of everything , the D7200 is a lot better camera , just read the reports

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

You really DON'T understand the benefits of image stabilization.



AGAIN, you include in your post that image stabilization can be used to LOWER ISO.

But I think you are missing this:

The so called "exposure triangle" is actually an exposure SQUARE, with ISO playing as critical a role as any of the other three.

Image Stabilization can be used to adjust ANY of the "legs" of the exposure SQUARE, including ISO.

I'm not talking theory here, but EXPERIENCE.

There are others here who know EXACTLY what I am saying. If you don't, MAYBE you should try a camera with 5 axis in body image stabilization and see for yourself.

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

You may be a Sharpshooter but Image Stabilization DOES work for moving subjects.

IT works WELL.

And I'm not talking about that 2 axis, 3 stop lens based IS/VR stuff you Canikons love.

With a modern mirrorless camera sporting 5 axis IBIS, you CAN shoot moving targets and get tack sharp images with a LOWER ISO than you can without it.

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

Actually, the FIRST qualifier the OP should have posted was the amount of money he was willing to invest. As I stated earlier, if money is no object, then the PERFECT camera is the A9, $1500 to $2000 cheaper than it's canikon counterparts, much smaller AND lighter.

Even the Sony A77II is smaller and lighter than the excellent D500 and the 5 years out of date 7DII. No mirror to flap up and down will drop the ounces.

Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI

Heck...even the em1ii is recommended over the 7dii

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CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

Yep.