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Lightroom 6 - Bye! Bye!
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Feb 1, 2017 23:36:22   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
Quantus5 wrote:
What Photoshop CC and Lightroom CC are really all about is a subscription model.

In the end, are you a renter or a buyer? and what's the long term cost?

Subscription isn't always more expensive, but in this case it adds up. $10 a month is around $120 a year and $350 over three years.

Now let's look at a really good alternative to Photoshop. I'll use Corel PaintShop Pro as an example, but there are other really good ones as well.

The current copy of PaintShop Pro X9 will cost you around $50 (just checked and that's around what you can get it for on Amazon).

I usually upgrade software around every three years, so for me that $50 cost is the three year cost. So compare $50 versus ~$360 (over a three year period).

And it's not really about the money, PaintShop Pro is a fantastic program and almost goes toe to toe with Photoshop CC. It's actually really hard to find anything meaningful that Photoshop CC can do that PaintShop Pro can't. I love this alternative.

I personally dislike the subscription business model (because over time it can add up -- depending on the monthly fee).

In general, given the choice I prefer to be a "buyer" not a "renter", and my choice on a great alternative is very clear: "Corel Paint Shop Pro", and there are other great alternatives out there as well.
What Photoshop CC and Lightroom CC are really all ... (show quote)

"Now let's look at a really good alternative to Photoshop. I'll use Corel PaintShop Pro as an example, but there are other really good ones as well.

The current copy of PaintShop Pro X9 will cost you around $50 (just checked and that's around what you can get it for on Amazon)."

The current version of Photoshop Elements at Amazon is $60. It might be a closer nose to nose comparison to PaintShop. There is no way to get Photoshop Elements in the CC program. The license has to be purchased outright and is normally around $40 a couple times a year. It includes a database organization system, the Adobe Camera Raw program and is very close to Photoshop CC in tool selection and layer management.

I do agree that it is good that there are quality choices for people that have an anger on for Adobe.

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Feb 1, 2017 23:53:34   #
Quantus5
 
You've actually raised another really good question. So what really are the differences between Photoshop CC and Photoshop Elements in terms of features? I can't really comment on this question because I know PaintShop Pro extremely well, but am not that familiar with Photoshop.

What I typically see is a lot of people shelling out for Photoshop CC that really aren't using it in any significant way. In other words, Photoshop Elements would more than serve there purposes and they'd be saving a lot of money.

The only thing with CC is you get a boat load of software packages in the CC subscription, but if you only use one package anyway, in the end, it is really money wasted.

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Feb 2, 2017 01:40:21   #
moonhawk Loc: Land of Enchantment
 
Kuzano wrote:
Trump Strikes again!!


Right, he had this in the works for years and years, plotting and scheming just so he could piss us off. Evil genius, I tell ya!

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Feb 2, 2017 02:08:35   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
bsprague wrote:
"Now let's look at a really good alternative to Photoshop. I'll use Corel PaintShop Pro as an example, but there are other really good ones as well.

The current copy of PaintShop Pro X9 will cost you around $50 (just checked and that's around what you can get it for on Amazon)."
Does the latest version of PSP stop removing the GPS data from the EXIF? I used to use PSP but had to stop when I discovered that every picture I processed with it had the GeoRef removed from the EXIF, and there was no way to turn that "feature" off. I went to Lightroom® to get away from that. (And it is necessary to turn that function off in LR, also--it is "ON" as the default.)

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Feb 2, 2017 02:28:39   #
Quantus5
 
Have never seen this issue. I am currently using the latest version PSP X9 not sure which version you had.

Here's a link to the geo location features of PSP X9 for reference:
http://help.corel.com/paintshop-pro/v19/main/en/documentation/index.html#page/Corel_PaintShop_Pro%2FAdding_Location.html

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Feb 2, 2017 02:53:45   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
I was using an older version of PSP, and there was no available control for that. It appears that has been corrected. Not sure what the default is, but it sounds as if it keeps the GPS data unless told to delete it.

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Feb 2, 2017 04:26:40   #
WineO Loc: Poughkeepsie NY
 
I am very confused. In the beginning of this thread it indicated that Adobe Lightroom 6 will not be available anymore that you would have to upgrade to lightroom 6 if using 5. After lightroom there are no other updates that you would have to use the cloud. Following this thread further do it indicates that is not true but Photoshop CS6 is not being updated anymore. What is it Lightroom or Photoshop CS6????????????????????

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Feb 2, 2017 06:46:17   #
kevcararts
 
The CLOUD eh? If I am not mistake, the CLOUD became a "public" asset when Eric Schmidt of Google fame announced it. Imagine your entire email history, all your documents, maybe you entire bookkeeping records, your porn, etc all on Googles servers. Google makes its money selling targeted advertising. And they probably do it fairly. I know, I had my own web sites where I paid Google to send me leads. Perhaps Google does not need to invade your privacy. But what methods does Google use to keep hackers and the Russians out of their servers? If Snowden et al, can get into top top top top secret contents, they can peruse Google too. Of course, THEY have no interest in your photography. Or do they?

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Feb 2, 2017 07:45:13   #
Spudwheat Loc: South Central Idaho
 
IMO Cloud = Big Brother
Monthly Subscription w/o true ownership = Hogwash

I know that everybody claims that Adobe Photoshop & their products are the "finest". This is a classic case of elitism..."If I'm paying big $$ then it has to be outstanding thus making me a professional." My reply to this is: You don't need Photoshop. Focus on creating better compositions.

That being said, if you're judging me right now... FYI, I started early in my career with Photoshop 1,0, Illustrator 1,0, Aldus Pagemaker, and I remember when Adobe published a monthly magazine selling typefaces like the one you're reading right now for $500 a piece!

Case in point: MS Word decimated $500 typefaces...you get them for free. You probably wondered, what is Aldus Pagemaker? That company was bought by Adobe. However, MS trumped them and added similar features to Word, for free.

Where is this post going? Well, if you can sharpen your technical and composition skills, you won't need Adobe unless you're processing for large format, giant prints that require RAW format. There are plenty of FREE competitors. Personally, after trying a few, and not having all the time needed to read online manuals to use them, I settled on Paint.net. Pretty comprehensive, and the user interface is friendly. It's got a pretty good array of tools. Personally, I find the cloning (rubber stamp) tool handy for the occasional toe in the frame post crop. Good luck!

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Feb 2, 2017 08:50:07   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
Quantus5 wrote:
What Photoshop CC and Lightroom CC are really all about is a subscription model.

In the end, are you a renter or a buyer? and what's the long term cost?

Subscription isn't always more expensive, but in this case it adds up. $10 a month is around $120 a year and $350 over three years.

Now let's look at a really good alternative to Photoshop. I'll use Corel PaintShop Pro as an example, but there are other really good ones as well.

The current copy of PaintShop Pro X9 will cost you around $50 (just checked and that's around what you can get it for on Amazon).

I usually upgrade software around every three years, so for me that $50 cost is the three year cost. So compare $50 versus ~$360 (over a three year period).

And it's not really about the money, PaintShop Pro is a fantastic program and almost goes toe to toe with Photoshop CC. It's actually really hard to find anything meaningful that Photoshop CC can do that PaintShop Pro can't. I love this alternative.

I personally dislike the subscription business model (because over time it can add up -- depending on the monthly fee).

In general, given the choice I prefer to be a "buyer" not a "renter", and my choice on a great alternative is very clear: "Corel Paint Shop Pro", and there are other great alternatives out there as well.
What Photoshop CC and Lightroom CC are really all ... (show quote)


Actually, you are not a buyer either. You have paid a License Fee. Your fee does NOT entitle you to any upgrades beyond the ooops we messed up here's a fix. Lightroom for $10.00 per month not only gives you Lightroom but also Photoshop, Adobe Camera Raw, Adobe Bridge, 2 gb of online (cloud) storage that can also be used to send images being worked on to another computer or other member of your staff to also work on. You are not comparing Apples To Apples when you compare Adobe to Corel. Yes, Corel is good but it isn't as good as Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop. You can use what you want and DEFINATELY offer alternatives but if you want to (be able) to produce the best results from your photography efforts (and are interested in learning) then $9.99 per month (or $119.88 per year prepaid) is a good deal to have the best and be able to work it. NOW understand that just because you have Adobe (or any other product) doesn't make you great at it. And, there is a learning curve, AND Adobe requires a computer that will handle it, but it is the recognized Gold standard for digital photo processing. If you can become competent and learn Adobe they you can't blame your photo results on the processor. Also, Lightroom / Photoshop interface seamlessly with all of the other Adobe Products (which you can get the entire lineup for about $49.99 per month or $599.88 per year.
Now, my images may not be as good as anyone else's on here but I can't and won't blame the software I'm using and it's not my cameras (well I could blame my lenses as I've got mid-tier lenses) but it's definitely not the software. It's probably the shooter's (current) ability with the camera, the location, the conditions and my knowledge...and maybe my current developed skill with the software but it definitely isn't an issue with the capabilities of the software.

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Feb 2, 2017 09:16:31   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
kevcararts wrote:
The CLOUD eh? If I am not mistake, the CLOUD became a "public" asset when Eric Schmidt of Google fame announced it. Imagine your entire email history, all your documents, maybe you entire bookkeeping records, your porn, etc all on Googles servers. Google makes its money selling targeted advertising. And they probably do it fairly. I know, I had my own web sites where I paid Google to send me leads. Perhaps Google does not need to invade your privacy. But what methods does Google use to keep hackers and the Russians out of their servers? If Snowden et al, can get into top top top top secret contents, they can peruse Google too. Of course, THEY have no interest in your photography. Or do they?
The CLOUD eh? If I am not mistake, the CLOUD becam... (show quote)


Folks, you are confusing "The Google Cloud" with other assets. I have a Western Digital Personal Cloud. It's in my house behind my firewalls and I can guarantee that it hasn't been hacked. Adobe has their OWN cloud called Adobe Creative Cloud. Primarily, it is a conduit to download and update their "Creative Cloud Applications, of which the Photography Package for $9.99 is a part. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Google Cloud, Microsoft Cloud, Jose's Cloud or Thunder Clouds. If your going to be suspicious at least get your facts straight before commenting.

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Feb 2, 2017 09:28:11   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
dcampbell52 wrote:
Actually, you are not a buyer either. You have paid a License Fee. Your fee does NOT entitle you to any upgrades beyond the ooops we messed up here's a fix. Lightroom for $10.00 per month not only gives you Lightroom but also Photoshop, Adobe Camera Raw, Adobe Bridge, 2 gb of online (cloud) storage that can also be used to send images being worked on to another computer or other member of your staff to also work on. You are not comparing Apples To Apples when you compare Adobe to Corel. Yes, Corel is good but it isn't as good as Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop. You can use what you want and DEFINATELY offer alternatives but if you want to (be able) to produce the best results from your photography efforts (and are interested in learning) then $9.99 per month (or $119.88 per year prepaid) is a good deal to have the best and be able to work it. NOW understand that just because you have Adobe (or any other product) doesn't make you great at it. And, there is a learning curve, AND Adobe requires a computer that will handle it, but it is the recognized Gold standard for digital photo processing. If you can become competent and learn Adobe they you can't blame your photo results on the processor. Also, Lightroom / Photoshop interface seamlessly with all of the other Adobe Products (which you can get the entire lineup for about $49.99 per month or $599.88 per year.
Now, my images may not be as good as anyone else's on here but I can't and won't blame the software I'm using and it's not my cameras (well I could blame my lenses as I've got mid-tier lenses) but it's definitely not the software. It's probably the shooter's (current) ability with the camera, the location, the conditions and my knowledge...and maybe my current developed skill with the software but it definitely isn't an issue with the capabilities of the software.
Actually, you are not a buyer either. You have pa... (show quote)


Practically everybody in this thread right now.

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Feb 2, 2017 09:41:12   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
dcampbell52 wrote:
Actually, you are not a buyer either. You have paid a License Fee. Your fee does NOT entitle you to any upgrades beyond the ooops we messed up here's a fix. Lightroom for $10.00 per month not only gives you Lightroom but also Photoshop, Adobe Camera Raw, Adobe Bridge, 2 gb of online (cloud) storage that can also be used to send images being worked on to another computer or other member of your staff to also work on. You are not comparing Apples To Apples when you compare Adobe to Corel. Yes, Corel is good but it isn't as good as Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop. You can use what you want and DEFINATELY offer alternatives but if you want to (be able) to produce the best results from your photography efforts (and are interested in learning) then $9.99 per month (or $119.88 per year prepaid) is a good deal to have the best and be able to work it. NOW understand that just because you have Adobe (or any other product) doesn't make you great at it. And, there is a learning curve, AND Adobe requires a computer that will handle it, but it is the recognized Gold standard for digital photo processing. If you can become competent and learn Adobe they you can't blame your photo results on the processor. Also, Lightroom / Photoshop interface seamlessly with all of the other Adobe Products (which you can get the entire lineup for about $49.99 per month or $599.88 per year.
Now, my images may not be as good as anyone else's on here but I can't and won't blame the software I'm using and it's not my cameras (well I could blame my lenses as I've got mid-tier lenses) but it's definitely not the software. It's probably the shooter's (current) ability with the camera, the location, the conditions and my knowledge...and maybe my current developed skill with the software but it definitely isn't an issue with the capabilities of the software.
Actually, you are not a buyer either. You have pa... (show quote)


It depends on the company what you get for your money, Adobe may only give free bug fixes and charge for new or improved features. Compare that with Serif who do both bug fix releases and feature releases I bought into Affinity Photo at version 1.3x (x versions were bug fixes) since then there have been new features with the 1.4.x branch release and the 1.5x branch release. There is no sign of stopping the development cycle.

The Affinity development team are responsive to customers, if something doesn't work properly, you can get an answer from a developer not a salesman.
Not every company will be as good or responsive as serif but Adobe is setting a low bar.

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Feb 2, 2017 11:38:30   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
David in Dallas wrote:
I was using an older version of PSP, and there was no available control for that. It appears that has been corrected. Not sure what the default is, but it sounds as if it keeps the GPS data unless told to delete it.

CS6 is a package of Adobe products distributed on discs. There were different packages called "suites" aimed at different uses. One was for videographers, one was for photographers, one was for graphic artists and others I think. The suites could be priced as high as about $2000. The last one was called "Creative Suite 6" or "CS6". Adobe stopped maintaining, updating and upgrading it a long time ago, but continued to let people buy it until this week. Hence the announcement that it CS6 was no longer for sale.

A few years ago Adobe decided that the same tools in the Creative Suites that could cost a few thousand would instead be rented. Rather than send you the now rented software tools on discs, you get them via the internet. Same tools, but updated and delivered differently. Everything Adobe makes is yours for a $50/month rental. Any single tool is $20/month. A "special" photographer's package of Lightroom and Photoshop is $10/month. The screaming deal is for students and teachers who get everything for $20. If you know a kid in school, give them an allowance in exchange for giving you access to the software!

Lightroom is entirely different. I can't remember if it was even included in the Creative Suites. What might be contributing to the confusion is that Lightroom on a disc is now on version 6.

For the sake of a laugh, I have to write that the demise of Lightroom 6 is "fake news".

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Feb 2, 2017 11:44:13   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
amfoto1 wrote:
I have looked for, but cannot find any "announcement" that Lightroom will become "CC only" any time soon (Photoshop has been CC only for several years now.)

I've used Photoshop for over 20 years and Lightroom since the first version. I do not want and will not subscribe to rental software.

Functionally, Lightroom is largely the same either way. The CC version gets upgraded faster, but that's likely just done as a marketing ploy and doesn't need to be the case.

As long as I can buy a perpetually licensed copy of Lightroom, I'm good. I use it to organize and manage my images, and for the initial work on them. For more complete finish work, I then pass images off to PS CS6. No problem... so long as Adobe keeps updating LR and offering it with perpetual licenses.

Price-wise, CC works out to cost about the same as what it has cost me to do periodic upgrades to PS and LR.

In the end, the only significant difference is that if you purchase the software it will work forever, as long as it meets your needs and is compatible with your computer and camera gear. The subscription version, on the other hand, will stop working if you don't keep up the monthly payments (last time I looked, you had to prepay a year of use for $120, to get the $10 a month rate).

What irks me is that Adobe doesn't give us a choice. Since most software is being marketed via downloads today, regardless whether it's a licensed or leased version, there's no difference as far as marketing and distribution costs are concerned.

So the only possible reason for wanting to force everything into a subscription model is to have more monopolistic control over the price and profits.

I don't see anything indicating that we need to say "bye bye" to Lightroom after the current version. In fact, in the past Adobe has stated that there will be a Lightroom 7 at some point, that they will continue to offer it for purchase in a perpetually licensed version. If you have a link to an announcement that Ligthroom will be CC-only anytime soon, I'd be interested to see it. However I really hope that's not the case. If it is, I'll have to start shopping for alternatives because I won't become a CC subscriber. That would be a shame, after 20 years as an Adobe customer! Not that one user makes any difference in Adobe's marketing decisions.
I have looked for, but cannot find any "annou... (show quote)


You said it yourself, "it will work forever, as long as it meets your needs and is compatible with your computer and camera gear." Which isn't going to happen. As soon as Adobe stops supporting LR6, they will not give you the necessary updates to keep your "new" cameras files working. And, in a few years, or less, when Apple and Microsoft and Intel decide to make improvements to their operating systems, LR6 may or may not be supported. Noting is forever except death and taxes. (figuratively speaking)

And!!! I only pay $9.99/month. I have not had to prepay for a full year yet.

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