paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

Diatribe. Can you spell it, say it, understand it. You have absolutely not proof of anything you post. Just claims. There are many nefarious works and many that you apparently be believe.
So peace is good enough for you. This life is based on eternal principles not how you feel at the moment. Evidently you have not read about Paul's conversion. Or he is either a liar. But why would he change so dramatically.
Your God who ever he is not in the bible but who knows where he comes from.
We are to do good according to God's definition of good. But you do not believe the bible from what I can gather so do you receive your own personal revelation? You talk in circles which make little sense.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

You tell me to stop with the personal attacks and look what you do. Your whole reply is a personal attack. As well as an attack on my peace of mind which you apparently have none of. You even have the gall to attack my God, which is your God but you don't even recognize it. The God of most monotheist religions is the same but they understand "Him" in different ways. Of course I've read about Paul's conversion. I've read the whole Bible three times through so I'm not uninformed about it. Paul changed so dramatically because he was guilty about how many Christians he had killed, had no peace of mind, and his inner spirit was being nudged by God to recognize his atrocities against God. He converted to belief in Jesus and the resurrection to start doing good instead of evil and became obsessed with his new life.

Yes, we are to do good according to God's definition of good. Not to be rewarded but to please God, although we are rewarded for it as well. You believe that definition can only come from one place - a book of mostly fiction. I believe the definition of good is easily available to anyone, including non-Christians, just by looking inside oneself for communication with God. Once you have that inner relationship, you are guided continuously to what is good and what is bad for everything and everybody around you. You discipline yourself to think and act in those ways - doing good for others, doing good for the earth, doing good for the animal kingdom, etc. and doing it because it's the "right" thing to do to please God. It's acting and speaking in love. Jesus described that as acting as "these small children" who were innocent of any form of hatred, greed, or other evils. Somewhere in your nose to the grind stone reading you must have heard, or maybe heard in Sunday School, that God is Love. Believe that primarily, skip the 66 books of hogwash, and live it. I don't need a book to tell me what's good and what isn't. Good is built into all of us if we take control of our carnal minds to not fall into evil (which is simply opposition to God's desires) and seek what is positive, loving, right, and beneficial to all others in God's creation. If you have to check with your all important book every time you have to decide about something to do or say, you're completely missing the spiritual side of this and are depending on man-made mistranslated words to make it through this life - which is missing everything.

I can talk with a devoted religious person from India about life and easily see how they are living in loving Godly ways. Is their religion perfect? No but it's basis is the same as mine. i can talk to an American Indian and see how they are living in Godly ways by treating God's creations well and chanting (praying) to their God. Is their society and religion perfect? No but it's basis is the same as mine. I can talk with anyone with a monotheistic single-God belief and find how they are living in a loving Godly manner. The same "thread" of pleasing God by doing positive for all of God's creation is the same no matter what they call God or what path they travel to get there. Then there are those who claim to read the Bible every day, claim to live "according to scripture", claim to know they have everlasting life because of their belief in Jesus, and forget all that while they're having sex with their best friend's wife, or plowing their car into another family's car while drunk and killing them all, or beating their toddler and throwing him/her against the wall in a fit of rage. Jehovah Witnesses are out there every day preaching to those sinful people to bring them over to the other side while claiming it's Biblical that Satan fell out of heaven in 1910 and that when you die you know nothing and are still with your body until the Second Coming causes a "rising in the air" of all the decomposed liquified bodies that are regenerated to new. Everybody has their version of what the BIble says. So what's the point?

Unlike you, I don't condemn a gay person and tell them they're going to hell fires. God doesn't care if your body and carnal mind are gay or not if you are living a life as I have described and being as SPIRITUALLY like God as possible. Unlike you, I don't condemn people from other God-based religions if they are being as SPIRITUALLY like their loving God as possible. According to Christianity, all those people are wrong and going to hell while only Christians have the real scoop because they believe the Bible. Sorry, I don't agree. As I said before, and you likely didn't pay attention, it is now known that Jesus traveled throughout the middle east and studied other religions, spoke to audiences there, spent time with religious leaders discussing God, communicating with God, praying, meditating, etc. and is well known with great respect there. Even Muslims are aware of Jesus and respect him as a prophet. So he had an open mind to learn everything he could about spiritual fulfillment and maximizing communication with God from everywhere he found it. There's strong evidence he was also a member of the Essences, gnostic researchers who delved deep into finding truth wherever it was to be found. My goal is to follow his example and do what pleases God. His example includes finding truths about becoming closer to God that were all around him and that's my desire as well.

You choose to judge others like Harvey and me for being more receptive to truths worldwide. The title of this thread is "explored outside the Bible" and that's what we do and you don't. You'll notice that in the Bible being judgemental of others is wrong. Maybe you should read up on that some more and maybe dump the word "nefarious" that you use constantly.

Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA

I have stayed on the sidelines for a while as I deciphered and analyzed what was being posted as most was far deeper than I can go intellectually.
Now I feel I can jump back in even though we are way off the original post I will give a little background of my path to exploring religions and the Bible.
I was raised by a father who had a very strict and angry with God father- my dad was the youngest of 12- my mother did have any religious leanings but she did say "if there was a loving God he wold not have orphaned her at 3 yrs old and put here through the living hell she was raised in."
My brother and I were allowed to attend local churches with the neighbors - first was the Nazarene- very young no studying there- next the Mormon as the boy scouts met there- no indoctrination there but wondered why my father was critical of the Mormons till I found 3 of his sisters had married Mormons and he knew how hypocritical his brother in-laws were - years pass by and I marry a Sunday School teacher- no I didn't get into regular church services as she did and raised our 4 girls around the Presbyterian church which I became quite comfortable attending the few times a year I did.
My wife started studying with a J.W. neighbor out of curiosity to compare it to her religious teachings and we discussed the many conflicting beliefs. Move on many years and "the light goes on" that showed me I need to stop my sinful lifestyle. I join a loosely Biblical based group-at age 52 my wife gives me my first personal bible and I start reading it and trying to grasp what others said about being a believer and to be truthful I could not get past the sheer fairy tale stories I encountered.
Where was this truthful, loving, forgiving and answer your every prayer God- Oh He was on the printed pages but there were too many questionable facts of history that made me question this theory - believe in God and you will be saved- all you pray for you will receive- well I took what I believed- a GOD/HIGHER POWER of my understanding was helping me lead a better Christian style life than my sin full past.,
OK move ahead 10 yrs or so and I have retired and start looking into the "rumor/false claim" that the Mormon religion was somehow connected the the Mayans of MX- a guide at the MAYAN TEMPLE of Talum told me that- well as soon as I got back to my home in CA I opened up my Book of Mormon and right there on one of the first pages was an image of that Mayan temple at Talum- well this started my search for truth rather than fiction through translation and new additions- internet searches of Mormon publications proved there was never any relationship between the Book of Mormon and the Mayans.
That was the first of many searches of items I questioned in the Bible as well - Hell - Sodom and Gamora (now there is another good topic based on rumor and superstition) so while many spend their time believing what they are told and taught from books filled with half truths and promises made 2 to 4 thousand years age I find myself searching for truthful and historical answers and quite often I run across folks who are not only Biblical scholars but inelegant open minded and willing to question the questionable.
One of which was a Professor at Lutheran Collage I spent many evening with who after all his years of study and teaching he still questioned the Biblical god.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

I used the term nefarious only once. You keep trying to suggest that I am main stream Christian and you keep trying to put your words into a definition of me. Your words do not make a definition of me. You are not even close. As far as the gays go I do not condemn them not do I condemn you or any other religion. But I do warn them there is more potential in this way of life that they will not achieve if they do not live the correct way. Besides Christ and God do not accept homosexuality. That is more than abundantly clear but then again one will have to read, according to you that awful book, the bible. Which BTW is the same book that they teach in Sunday School. You keep putting your definition of me using against me but you do not know my mind let alone my beliefs.
You'll notice that in the Bible being judgemental of others is wrong. You keep saying how untrue the bible is but then you go ahead and quote like it is true. And I do not judge people with condemnation that is not my place or my job. But that does not mean I turn a blind eye to sin either. That would be totally stupid.
And I keep telling you that I do read other things and believe them and accept them into my beliefs. BTW I have a Muslim friend that told me that they do not believe Christ was a prophet but that he was a good teacher. I guess I will have to believe him.
I am sorry that you have had all of those bad experiences with all of the bible thumping people that do not live up to what they are taught. Do not put me into that category. I am not them and they are not me. And BTW I have not experienced any of those things in my life yet. They do not happen in my neighborhood or area. But life is changing and changing big time every since we have had the person who has no morals trying to lead this country astray. I am not saying that they do not happen because I am sure they do. But that is why God constantly taught against them because He knew people would be imperfect. That is why he atoned for those sins for those that will accept Him.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

Nefarious once in your last post, but at least three times since this debate began. Putting my words into a definition of you? I'm not defining you other than what you make clear - your read and believe every word of the Bible and you have said in various ways that we who explore outside of it for truth are wrong. If that's not the definition of a mainstream Christian I don't know what is. I have no other way of defining you other than what you bring to this discussion and what you have brought is mainstream beliefs and nothing else.

You say you don't condemn gays for their lifestyle but you say... unless they "live the correct way." While I don't believe homosexual activity is natural because it cannot in any way lead to procreation and survival of any mammal species, it's made obvious repeatedly in the NT that God is most interested in your soul, your intentions toward others, your ability to love, and not your body. BTW, I'm not aware of Jesus ever broaching the subject of homosexuality in the NT at all. If you have knowledge of HIM saying something about it, let me know. I don't want to hear about Paul talking about it, if he did, because he's also the one responsible for Catholic Priests being saddled with the burden of being celibate, not marrying, but still having desire for sexual activity. You may jump on a bungee cord and hit your head to become a paraplegic and God doesn't condemn you to hell fires because of your stupidity that essentially ruins the rest of your life. You may get drunk and wreck your car and cause brain damage to yourself and God doesn't condemn you to hell fires for it. So why would God condemn a homosexual mindset that may not be controllable (most claim that it is not)? For all the talk of gays "changing and becoming heterosexual so they can be a Christian" that I've heard over the years, I've never heard of a "changeover" who actually became heterosexual but more commonly became celibate so as to not be a practicing gay. But the desire to go back to it is likely still there. So why bother changing a lifestyle that doesn't hurt anyone if it's handled with love, and not just for recreation, if they still have t fight the carnal desire for the rest of life anyway? It doesn't make sense because their walk with God is hampered by the carnal desire and they're still labeled as gay even if they aren't practicing that lifestyle. While I'm as hetero as one can be, I believe that gays who love each other and are in a monogamous committed relationship aren't harming anybody any more than a straight couple in a monogamous relationship are harming anybody. The ones God is definitely displeased with are straight men who "emotionally harm" dozens of women sexually every year, leave fatherless children all over the place, promise undying love to women but fake it until they score, engage a woman for marriage to "get" her and then dump her, have affairs that go on for years behind their wive's backs, and other recreational uses of sex for selfish gain. And vice-versa for straight women.

Polygamists who are in a committed and dedicated relationship with several wives are also not harming anybody because the women all know about each other, are friends, many times live in the same household, share family responsibilities, and accept the polygamous lifestyle. Polygamy was acceptable in the OT so it should be acceptable in the NT as well but those who rewrote it to their liking didn't want polygamy acceptable any more because it meant a man's possessions would be distributed among his many wives and offsprings upon his death and the Catholic church wanted his riches, one wife, and much smaller number of children to stay within the church for the church's financial benefit. That is documented and has been known for decades. You probably think the Bible is anti-polygamy but it isn't. Western civilization is doing it's best to suppress it and make it illegal by claiming it displeases God and he condemns them for it but that's not the case. So I don't condemn them or their lifestyle either.

About being judgemental... Yes, the Bible says that but I was not quoting the Bible specifically. Even monotheistic Hinduism says the same thing. So it's a common theme of any religion that has a one God focus where their God is the only one righteous enough and worthy to judge humans. It's also one of those common sense rules of living that you should have built in. Your spirit in communication with God knows it's harmful to another living entity and should not be practiced in your life.

About your Muslim friend. He's wrong. Here's quotes from the Quran itself offered up by a Muslim site I found:
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During his prophetic (NOTICE THE WORD PROPHETIC) mission, Jesus performed many miracles. God tells us that Jesus said:

“I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God’s permission. And I tell you what you eat and what you store in your houses....” (Quran, 3:49)

Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. It was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said:

...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)

Neither Muhammad nor Jesus came to change the basic doctrine of the belief in one God, brought by earlier prophets (THUS MUHAMMAD AND JESUS WERE LATER PROPHETS), but rather to confirm and renew it
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So they believe him to have been born of a virgin birth, to be a messenger of God, capable of miracles that no man was capable of, etc. That sounds like a prophet to me and NOT just a teacher.

Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA

noun: prophet; plural noun: prophets; plural noun: Prophets; plural noun: the Prophets
1.
a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.
"the Old Testament prophet Jeremiah"
synonyms: seer, soothsayer, fortune teller, clairvoyant, diviner; More
(among Muslims) Muhammad.
singular proper noun: Prophet; noun: the Prophet
(among Mormons) Joseph Smith or one of his successors.
noun: the Prophet
a person who advocates or speaks in a visionary way about a new belief, cause, or theory.
"a prophet of radical individualism"
a person who makes or claims to be able to make predictions.
"the anti-technology prophets of doom"

I think the key word in this definition - PROCLAIMED -

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

synonyms: seer, soothsayer, fortune teller, clairvoyant, diviner Only one of those definition fit the definition of a Prophet=seer. The Bible defines a prophet as a person who has a testimony read it in Revelations.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

While what you write does seem to have some validity to it and I do not understand much of what others claim, like the quote that my friend claims that Christ was just a good teacher and not a Prophet. That too is confusing to me. But I will have to take him for what he says because of their actions and not what is written. If they thought he was a Prophet they would have to follow his teaching and become Christians themselves which they obviously are not.
As far as myself goes. I write and tell you that I am not mainstream Christian and that I read many other references and not just the Bible. But I guess I do not know myself or what I read. Next time I am reading one of those other books I will have to tell myself that I am reading the Bible. Just because I read it does not mean that I automatically believe it either.

So they believe him to have been born of a virgin birth, to be a messenger of God, capable of miracles that no man was capable of, etc. That sounds like a prophet to me and NOT just a teacher. Sounds to me like He is more divine that a Prophet to me but I am not saying what I think but what he told me.
You are right about Christ not saying anything about homosexuality because that was not His mission. Christ believed in the OT and even quoted it and God's feeling towards homosexuality are clearly presented there. He never once declared that the OT was wrong. He taught from it, quoted from it. I had a discussion once with some Christians that said they did not believe the OT because it was obsolete and was just a bunch of old stories. I wonder what they say about the book that Christ read from and quoted from. Yet the refused to believe it.
BTW, nefarious is a good term and I will continue to use it when it is appropriate.
As far as what I think of Polygamy you are wrong again. Boy I wish you would stop trying to put words into my brain.

As far as you and Harvey goes, it is: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Well I am not either of your enemies. I do not think you and Harvey would agree on much.
I will write what I believe and this will be my last comment:
As I have said I believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly and that there are errors in there but that does not negate the whole of the Bible. That could never happen and would be totally stupid on it's premise.
The Bible is necessary because it tells us who God is and without it we have nothing to enjoy, hope for or realize why we are even here.
It tells us that without God we are nothing and we are meaningless, are just matter with none of the emotions like love and charity, compassion, hope, faith etc.
It tells us that God has a purpose, a reason for all that He does. That there is meaning to life itself.
It tells us that God has a structure and established a church, not a building but a church of offices and officers, an organization, such, Prophets, Seventies, Evangelists, Bishops, teachers, priests & etc
.
It teaches that God has power to do what He says He will. But it also teaches us they He will use His power not to give a demonstration for what He is but that He will use if for righteous purposes, only. His power was used to help people and not a demonstration of power.
It teaches us that God is the same today, yesterday, and forever.
It tells us that we are not just physical but that we have two parts to us, physical and spiritual.
It tells us that for us to be truly happy we will have to overcome the physical body and let the spirit rule our souls.
It teaches us that we have a need for an atonement. That we would be lost with out it and we have no way of our spirits overcoming the flesh without the atonement.
It teaches that our lives are not our own but that we are holding to someone else.
It teaches us that Satan is real.
It teaches us that mankind will rebel against righteousness and continue to do wicked things, if a plan was not put into place to correct that.
It teaches us that we cannot believe anything and everything but that we have to be selective in what we accept and the way we live.
It teaches us that life cannot be intellectualized.
It teaches us that there will be consequences for our actions. No, I am not referring to Heaven or Hell.
It teaches us that there is good and bad in this world. There is opposition in all things.
It teaches us that Christ loved His followers.
It teaches us that we must follow Christ in order to receive the fullness.
It teaches us that there is a way to happiness and it is mostly in giving of ourselves.
And there is much more that the Bible teaches us but to get that I guess one just has to read it.

johnsong1

I thought, from the beginning that the Heaven and Hell commentaries would have some good, serious and helpful discussions. Instead, it has been quite a disappointment as statements have been made throwing out generalities or unnamed theologians as experts without any ability to verify the truth of their claims. So I opt out of this conversation with the words of someone much wiser than I; Proverbs 9:7-10, "Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults: whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse. Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will be wiser still; teach the righteous and they will add to their learning. The fear of the LORD (in the Hebrew this word actually means The Name) is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
I am sorry our discussions have not been more fruitful.

Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA

O

This is a straight to the subject answer to the original subject - it seems YOU DO NOT look to other writings for answers to questions about subjects or peoples of the Bible. You remind me of the early peoples who believed the stories of the earth being flat and other sea monster stories - in time investigation proved them wrong.

Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA

a wise choice from the Bible - proving there is some good teachings as well as questionable writing there- I too am disappointed that no one seemed to be of the same inquisitive mind as you and I.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

So what did you expect the outcome of this thread to be? An end-all Doctorate thesis on Heaven & Hell from the world's leading theological researchers complete with footnotes as to whom each reference is attributed, when, and in what publication it first appeared? If you have that kind of time in your life, go for it, but I doubt anyone else on UHH does unless it's their occupation. For the most part I read or watch what seems to be beneficial to living a positive life, absorb the main focused theme, and don't create a library index system of every detail to have arguments, debates, and discussions about it. It's not my job to be a learned theologian with a library archive but to have my eyes open to find truths that help me stick to a path that pleases God and allows me to have eternal life with, and as part of, my loving God when I leave this hellhole. God verifies I'm doing that satisfactorily by rewarding my family and I on a regular basis. I never tire of those verifications that God is watching over us and happy with our dedication.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

This is a religious discussion and fortune tellers, soothsayers, clairvoyants have nothing to do with Christs religion. No wonder one becomes so mixed if the go to the wrong source for their information.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

So thanks for rebuking those wiser than yourself so we can become more wise. You taught nothing. You added nothing to the conversation, which has admittedly gone off course into other areas like all long threads do, and then criticized the whole thing and all of us because you've kept your mind completely closed throughout the whole thing and learned absolutely nothing. Nice tactic. I suppose you do that at your church too. Hide under the balcony in the shadows, with a puckered frowning face, then jump out at the preacher at the back door when exiting and tell him how his long-winded sermon that he spent all week preparing taught you nothing of value.

Unnamed theologians? Try Bart D. Ehrman, Ph.D., the James A. Gray Professor and Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He's only featured at least once a year and sometimes more in Time magazine as a leading theological authority and is interviewed in most all documentaries about historic Christianity, the Bible, and Jesus. His Doctorate is from Princeton Theological Seminary. He specializes in early Christianity of the Greco-Roman environment and has special expertise in the textual criticism of the New Testament. If anybody knows about the First Century churches of the followers of Jesus, and the origin and corruption of texts of the NT, it's him.

Or maybe, why don't you try Luke Timothy Johnson, Ph.D. the Robert W. Woodruff Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at the Chandler School of Theology at Emory University in Atlanta. He is also regularly featured in Time magazine and in documentaries. He spent 9 years as a Benedictine Monk then earned his Doctorate in New Testament from Yale.

Just these two examples of "unknown theologians" know more actual factual information about the Heaven and Hell hoax of mainstream Christianity, the original texts of the OT and NT, and the multitude of Christianities that existed before the Roman church crushed them out of existence, than all the opinionated and misguided ministers, preachers, pulpit pounding evangelists, priest, and church leaders of every denomination in the U.S. combined. Those are not my only sources of what I believe but two that you might conclude are more than throwing out generalities.

Feel free to opt out of this conversation. You weren't in it anyway. Don't let the UHH door hit you in the butt...

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

Well, for once, I'll say that we are closer to being in agreement here than anytime in this thread. Except:

Jesus being A prophet is different for Hindus and Muslims than him being THE prophet. So they wouldn't have to become Christians. They have eyes open to learn from more than one prophet not focus on just one.

As for God and homosexuality, does God say it's a sin or was it Moses who was horrified by seeing it and said that? Was it one of the 10 commandments or was Adultery one instead? Was the taking of another man's wife a sin worthy of being one of the Commandments because it was taking from him, or was a consensual but unnatural act of intercourse that doesn't lead to procreation just as bad? Why isn't that listed as one of the 10 rules to living a life pleasing to God? Yes, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because Lot, his wife, and children were the only God-fearing non-evil-saturated people left. But be careful there, just because men of the town wanted to "know" the male Angels, doesn't mean that was the ONLY reason the towns were leveled. I'd think it was only one sin of many that were going on, including many that were much worse. The area was leveled because the sick carnal minds of the inhabitants were too far gone to be redeemed. In reality, western civilization today isn't a lot better and is getting worse all the time.

True that Jesus taught from the OT but we don't know what the OT was at that point. Since the Bible as we know it today is the OT and NT combined, they've both been mistranslated over time. Today's OT represents God being a vengeful God who instructs Israelites to go to war, kill everybody and everything, and take over territories. Can you imagine the loving God of the NT telling world leaders to attack other world leaders and kill everybody and everything? I find that more than a curiosity. I want to know why a God that will open up the earth and have the ground swallow up tens of thousands of innocents as a revengeful tactic to punish a few is later in the NT claimed to worry about the eternal destiny of every one of us and "send his only begotten son" to save us. The OT and NT just don't line up. I propose that the OT has been drastically changed or had books added to it since the time of Jesus, despite what the Jews claim about not changing a word. And where to you see Jesus discuss any vengeful actions by his Father that he taught as being loving? I also find it suspicious that the Jews, formerly called Israelites, are the heros of everything in the Bible, the winners of every battle as lone as they believed in God and did it the way he said to, but then when they revolt toward the end, the 12 tribes are scattered by God throughout the earth never to return to their homeland en mass. Only two tribes calling themselves Jews dominate Israel today. They didn't inherit the earth, their royal bloodlines are completely infiltrated by other Gentile bloods because of intermarriage, and they're now incapable of having the promised land as a singular people. Did God just get sick of leading these dummies around on leashes to get them to act right and then change his mind and dump them as the potential winners of everything? I thought God didn't change his mind and remained consistent for all times?

I don't remember saying you thought Polygamy was wrong. Maybe I did but I don't have time to go back through this thread to find out.

I actually didn't say the whole Bible should be negated, but I said that it should not be believed as a whole as the only source of truths to live by. I encourage gnostic study of various potential sources of truth with open eye without using the Bible as the ONLY source to live by. I can learn from the song "What If God Was One Of Us" and it makes me think about how we would treat Jesus if he showed up today. Although I'm not saying it's about Christianity and I know they take great liberties that are not valid, I can learn things to think about from the three Matrix movies. The Tom Hanks movies about the Catholic church and the potential that Jesus was married and had children (there are texts and partial texts that seem to lead in this direction that have been found) are closer to reality than lie and there are things to learn or think about. Monotheistic Hinduism has a lot of valid teachings that parallel Christianity and are many times what Christianity should be but isn't so there are things to learn there. Deepak Chopra is an extremely good source of spiritual awareness for everyone if you can endure the depth of study required to understand him. He comes very close to blurring the distinction between Hindu and Christian beliefs in some of his writings and videos and I highly respect him. So I prefer to search far and wide for truths that my inner spirit's communication with God within me verify are truths that Christianity just ignores. Although it may seem crazy, even Sylvia Brown had a new spiritual church large congregation that focused on God and did not deny the importance of Jesus. Was she spot on and worthy of following religiously? I think not. I didn't even like her as a person but that doesn't mean she didn't express some truths. There were truths in her beliefs that are beneficial to everybody desiring to follow God faithfully. Edgar Cayce made lots of prophetic statements many of which can't be verified yet, believed in Atlantis, and other things that seem to be whacked but he also read the Bible every day and believed it. He somehow during a sleep state came up with cures for things like arthritis and cancers 50 and 60 years before medical researchers supposedly created those same cures in labs with no knowledge of Cayce. Do I believe every single thing he ever said and follow him religiously? Not at all. But I believe there are some truths that work for everyone within all the information he expressed over his whole life. The list goes on and on.

Concerning Satan, I believe Satan started evil with impressing us that we want and need power, financial gain, and control. If you believe the Garden of Eden story, why did Eve pick the fruit? To have herself and Adam gain something they didn't have. Notice what the Bible says Satan did to Jesus in the desert. Promised him power, wealth, and control of all people. But only by implication is Satan the source of all evil. Satan just instilled greed in mankind and mankind takes care of the rest of making as much evil as possible. The carnal desire for power over others, the desire to have more wealth than others commonly known as greed, and the desire to control others are what infiltrates the mind and causes evil decisions. Those evil decisions foster more evil decision of that person and those around that person who are affected by the decisions. So evil itself is a worldwide network of carnal decisions based upon what Satan started - the opposite mirror image of what pleases God. Taking instead of giving. I don't believe Satan personally infiltrates your mind with evil. I think evil is 99% man-made. As more and more evil decisions are made by mankind, the evil gets thick and thicker and more and more popular among humans who are naturally carnal. Look at any evil event, action, or words and you will typically see decisions made for personal gain of something unless its' just pure insanity - which is a cumulative reaction of extreme evil. Killing a dozen Amish school girls is insanity of a mind that was so filled with evil that the result was violence. You can recognize all the human evil factors that accumulate in one who commits a violent crime and list them to see how greed for recognition, power, financial gain, or something similar festered into an accumulation that resulted in violence. Unfortunately many times these evil thoughts are hidden and nobody is aware of them until it's too late. Other times the evil thoughts are expressed and people ignore them as just rants or not too bad when expressed singularly.

I suppose it's time to bury the hatchet on this soon. You are where you are going to stay and I'm where I'm going to stay. We can agree to disagree. How's that?