marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

You talk like a raving lunatic. Nobody promised you anything. Nobody here said they're higher than God. Quite the contrary. And nobody asked you to follow them. Nobody here said they have power - although believers have access to God's power with His full blessing to use it anytime to do good for his creations. Those of us who are discussing the original author's title of this thread are not breeding contempt nor squashing hope, we merely have open eyes to search for even more hope throughout this world. We are simply learning truths over time that the Roman church intentionally destroyed and hid as they killed off the competing Christianities in their ladder climbing to becoming the biggest and most powerful organized religion of the western world. I have faith just as strong as yours but not based on the standard mainstream Christian hoax. It's not up to you to judge whether I have faith or not, mine's just not the same as the way you think it's supposed to be so you consider that a lack of faither. Lack of faith in a hoax? Yes. Lack of faith in God and what Jesus showed as the way to God? Absolutely not. Sorry but mainstream Christianity, with all denominations stemming from the Roman Catholic church, is misguided mostly because of a disorganized collection of books put together into one and nobody even knows who really wrote many of them. God did NOT write the Bible. Besides there are many versions of the Bible and they are quite different - because of intentional desires to guide people to the likings of political and religious leaders of various eras.

Let's turn this around. You tell me what it was like in antiquity from YOUR personal experience. Don't give me the hogwash that the Bible was written right then and everything is an accurate account of it so that's your personal experience because it wasn't written then. Mainstream Christianity is meant to be mystical and have congregations lacking full understanding so you have to refer to the leaders for your understanding, which they don't even have in full. That way religious organizations keep you coming back and paying the bills. Everybody who cares to be open to the truth knows that most (but not all) the books of the NT were written 80 to 450 years after the fact by fiction writers who used the names of the Disciples as pen names. That's the truth whether you like it or not. It's the real history of the Bible. You can read about it, take college classes on it, or just watch very simplified documentaries on NetFlix to learn some of what you're missing that has been proven and verified. So you can stop raving from your soap box now because you've exhausted your real knowledge and nobody is listening any way. If you don't learn to think for yourself outside the church box, sometime between now and death, you've missed the train and it ain't coming back.

Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA

Many Christians have not had the opportunity to live in the lands of an older culture - or even consider the Native Americans before 1500 - I have - besides the Natives of the CA, CO and ID - I have spent 15 yrs visiting and 5 yrs living in and around the Mayans of the Yucatan peninsula of MX observing influx of various missionaries - which even included the establishment of non- denominations which is leading to the exodus from the Catholic Church.
On ]my wife's great grand parents and grand parents we Methodist medical missionaries in China from 1875 - 1928-(surviving the Boxer Uprising) her mother taught male nurses to speak English oh they got out of China ahead of the Communist movement.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

You guys all amaze me. You talk of God and claim you are Christians yet you deny him any power. Did He create the earth or not? Did Christ Atone for the sins of the world. You accept what you want to accept and you deny anything else. I will bet that even though you claim to believe the same things I do not believe that you will agree on that either. You claim to have faith but manifest little. You have not been reading what I have written. I have always claimed that there are errors in the bible. But that does not negate the whole bible. That would be ridiculous. You in your own minds set up religions not to God but to yourselves.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

Once again, you're talking nonsense. i do not deny God any power. God is all powerful. I don't see anybody else on here (the Atheists have not descended on this thread yet like normal) who is denying God power either. Did he create the earth? Yes.

Did Christ atone for the sins of the world? I believe Christ became "at one" (the real definition of at-one-ment) with God when he left his physical body and revealed himself as a spiritual entity, then ascended to "The Father" (according to the Bible you hang onto so tightly). If you believe the Bible stories, he also proves he became a spiritual entity and no longer his flesh body by walking through a wall into the place where the Disciples were and doesn't use the door. He can easily transform himself to be recognized or not recognized when walking and discussing with men later on. So the atonement was when he ascended to the realm of God after telling Mary Magdalene (BTW, she was not a prostitute as the Catholic Church has claimed for hundreds of years but actually the person closest to Jesus even beyond the Disciples during his ministry years. The Catholic church now admits that.) to do not touch him because he had not yet ascended to the spirit realm of God or "heaven" as you would know it. I believe Jesus' mission was to teach the way to God and eternal life, be crucified, reveal himself as a spiritual being afterward, ascend as the first Son of God into "heaven" which is the spirit realm known as God, and essentially accomplish blazing a pioneering path for the rest of us to follow as more Sons and Daughters of the Father when our spirits leave the physical bodies behind. Not redeemed by believing "in him" but by believing in what he taught, what he did to open that path of eternal life to us, and living in a manner that is pleasing to God so we can follow the same exact path.

As for manifesting faith, discouraging study and further learning in this life from other sources than just the Bible, which is what you're doing, is certainly not manifesting anything of value. We aren't trying to "fix" you but you are wanting to "fix" me (us) - who are more open to learn from sources outside the ancient book of mostly fiction you have glued to your hand as though it's a Holy Grail of all truth although it isn't.

I AM reading what you have written, contrary to your comment. But what you have written holds water about as well as a sponge. You are spouting what mainstream Christianity has programmed you with for many years and if you just studied unbiased writings of leading theologians and professors you'd see that it's twisted nonsense that doesn't even gel with itself. Contradictions in the OT are just that. Contradictions. There's no way to explain around it. If you opened your eyes and studied even well-known Deepak Chopra's books, you'd learn that Indian religion and Christianity have a lot in common but their religious leaders have massive spiritual depth that western Christianity doesn't have. I guess you don't know that Jesus studied in eastern countries during some of the "lost years" between when he was 12 in the Temple and when his ministry began. He is known as a great spiritual leader in India although they are not for the most part Christian. Christianity believes God is somewhere "up there" wherever that is. Indians believe God is within every living thing and every person. Then experiencing God is seeking for God within ourselves not "out there" somewhere. I believe that as well.

"You set up religions not to God but to yourselves." What wacko preacher or author did you hear that from? I (we that agree on this thread) are doing no such thing. Having a different approach to God and Jesus who became the Christ (but wasn't born as such) is not setting up religions to oneself. It's having a different approach and not letting mainstream Christianity drag us around by a collar and leash. If you had studied this stuff for 37 years like I have, been involved with more than 15 denominations and non-denominations, worked in churches to see the behind-the-scenes profit and expenses meetings with planning on how to boost income, watched numerous outwardly Saints having affairs with married women sometimes even during services, etc. you would have questioned the whole thing too. You'd have a better picture of reality and find truths out there in the real world instead of sticking your head in the sand and vehemently defending the undefendable.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

You have me all wrong in trying to defeat me. I am not main stream Christianity. Period. I read many other sources but I do not negate the Bible either. One cannot do that and believe because it is basically all that we have. I believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. Isaiah 55:8-9 says: 8). For my thoughts are not your thoughts neither are my ways your ways saith the Lord. 9). For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.
Whether or not these other religions want to be hypocrites is up to them and they will be judged for their deceptions. Not only do I see deceptions in their actions but in their teachings as well. They pick and choose the scriptures so they can do what they want to do. They essentially deny God's power and do not teach the Bible just one or two scriptures. They deny 1 Cor 15. and they even deny the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel. They deny baptism, revelation, testimonies and scripture. I have studied and have studied for 50 years. I am not defending the people and their sins but I am defending God and God's principles and teachings. I am defending his power and authority. I am defending the plan of salvation. But I am not defending it by bringing in nefarious teachings.

dirtpusher Loc: tulsa oklahoma

i wish them luck,

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

Well, if I have you wrong, it's because you now are calming down and not acting like a Bible pounding mainstreamer. "I believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly" doesn't work because you and I don't know what's translated correctly and what isn't. You also say "these other religions pick and choose one or two scriptures so they can do what they want to do. What did you just do with Isaiah? Same thing.

You aren't defending God and God's principles and teachings because you are only focusing on a Bible that you now finally admit is flawed and mistranslated. His power and authority have nothing to do with that. The plan of salvation is fine but if you use a mistranslated Bible built of mostly fictional writings to learn or understand the plan then how firmly can you stand for that plan without looking outside of the Bible for more understanding that either adds to your knowledge or validates from external sources what you read that may just be fiction.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

Amos 3:7
I think you just like to argue to argue. And what you read is obviously fiction. I wish you luck but luck will not cut it not in the eternal world. Study all you want but if you study the wrong thing you have gained nothing especially if you believe.

johnsong1

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

See there. Now you started being nice and you just had to jump off the track and start your Bible pounding again. Just forget it. I don't read fiction and I'm quite confident in the information that has been learned in theological archeology over the last 50 years that adds to my understanding of all of this. And I'll continue to compare eastern religion main points with those that Jesus taught. If you want to stay blind to all that and much more that surrounds you, go ahead and limit yourself to fiction that you don't know who wrote it or when.

Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA

To me it looks like you are talking to yourself at times - including here-"I think you just like to argue to argue. And what you read is obviously fiction"---"luck will not cut it not in the eternal world" - what do you know of the eternal world other than what has been pounded into your head from the writings of the Bible-"Study all you want but if you study the wrong thing you have gained nothing" What do you consider "the wrong thing" is it anything that is not in the Bible - try historical writings and research of others than biased theologians.- "you have gained nothing especially if you believe" LOL - this is a pathetic statement-it justifies the law that keeps mankind in everlasting ignorance- CONTEMPT PRIOR TO INVESTIGATION"

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

Too the both of you since we are talking Christ here, defeat me with the words of Christ. His own words or the words of His Prophets or Apostles. So quite the diatribe and the inane comments because the other BS does not matter. If you do not believe or cannot read or comprehend, so much for your opinion. And you will have to answer to Christ for your words and actions. Christ is the one who atoned for my sins so I answer only to him. So call it what you want but you know what, you are not in charge.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

You still don't get it. There are no words of the prophets or apostles in the Bible. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were NOT written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John for example. The only one remotely connected to truth is Paul and he never met any of them and created his own Paulian Christianity that is not in sync with the behavior that was normal when Jesus was alive. Someone you may recognize, but maybe not since you keep your head in the sand, is Thomas Jefferson. He decided the Bible was fiction long before any of us. He cut all the words of Jesus out of a Bible, picked the ones that seemed to be in accordance with the personality and other teachings of Jesus, and then pasted those onto the pages of a blank book. That became his Bible for the rest of his life. He knew that what he was being taught wasn't right and did something about it.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

Your post makes absolutely no sense. And yes I do get it, at least I understand what you are saying but your statement leaves only a void. BTW would you stop the personal attacks it gets you nowhere. TJ did what he did for a reason but your statements on TJ does not change my mind because I have different knowledge and have a different perspective. And there are words of the apostles in the bible. John received his book of Revelation by revelation and wrote what he saw. Luke was not an apostle so you are right on that account he was a physician. Peter wrote his own books also but many do not accept what he taught because they cannot comprehend. BTW Paul writings were to correct the apostate teaching that were being presented by apostate people who said they were converted but could not let their apostate teaching go.
I have noticed that a person's religion and belief only give them what they can. They never promise something they cannot fulfill. So what do your beliefs give you?
BTW your opinion is just that an opinion. Sure you may quote sites but they are their opinions also.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

Once again, you either aren't reading what I wrote or you choose to ignore the truth. My post doesn't make sense to you because you aren't reading what I spend a lot of time wording for you in the most understandable format possible. Here, let's try it again: MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, and JOHN were NOT written by them. They were written by fiction writers 80 to 450 years after the fact using those names as pen names. It is PROVEN, not just a guess. There is also NO VERIFICATION that "John" who wrote Revelations was THE disciple JOHN. That can't be proven although churches like to attribute it to him. You also can't explain why there are three distinctly different endings of the world as we know it from three different OT and NT Bible authors. Even if we skip over the trivial matters like No Wise Men in one birth story, 3 Wise Men in another, and many Wise Men in another there are plenty of other conflicts of much more pertinence. Jesus was from a Virgin Birth? Theologians now know there were 5 reported Virgin Births with a 50 year period of when Jesus was born. There's not even a valid useful reason for why a Virgin Birth is of any value unless someone is trying to imply he didn't have a physical father and that God was his father from the very beginning. Thus you have controversy among Christian denominations as to whether Jesus was God, Jesus was part human and part God, not God at all until he rose from the dead, etc. The Holy Trinity thing was also never discussed by Jesus and is a mainstream Christianity creation to explain what the Bible has conflicts about. I don't know why I waste the time because you aren't open to anything but what you have been programmed with.

Paul's writings were to correct others? What's to say his corrections were right? He didn't meet Jesus or any of the original Disciples and created his own Christianity that he was teaching based solely upon "what he had heard" about this Jesus guy, which was very different than the other Christianities of his time. Many considered Paul a heretic and refused to put any stock in what he said and wrote. Certainly the Roman Universal Church who became the Roman Catholic church was all ears though! His Paulian Christianity helped them stomp out all the competing Christianities that were offshoots and expansions of the other 6 churches of the region who weren't as politically and financially powerful.

My belief gives me peace, communication between God and myself, seeing things take place in my life that are results/rewards for my strong belief in God, hope concerning there being life after death, an understanding of what God is and isn't as well as where God is and where God isn't, a God-given ability to recognize truth or lies as they are presented to me - recognition in my spirit not my mind, an understanding of what Jesus was teaching instead of relying on what Christianity teaches about Jesus the person, the ability to recognize strands of truth that run throughout all positive-motive loving religions whether they are western or eastern or Native American or whatever, and a knowledge of how God wants me to act, react, and speak so I can follow the straight and narrow path leading to the same exact afterlife that Jesus showed us how to have. We are to live here IN evil but not be part of it. We are to have interactions with evil and learn how to overcome it for the benefit of self and others. We are to deal with evil that is done to us and come out of it unscathed by our belief in God and desire to do God's will. We are to do good, according to God's definition of good, to all living things, all people, and the earth itself - the definition of Love.

As far as personal attacks go, you are personally attacking us, so don't complain about reactions of the same nature.