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ND Filter -- instructions for beginners
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Apr 17, 2016 08:03:16   #
al davis Loc: chesterfield virginia
 
DerBiermeister wrote:
I have purchased an ND4 (2 step) filter primarily to bring color brightness back to what otherwise would be washed-out images on wide angle when facing the sun. The filter arrives on Monday, so I have not yet been able to experiment with it. I have also reviewed dozens of youtubes and articles on ND Filters and while they are informative, they don't address the basic BASICS.

I admit right up front that I am a dummy when it comes to instinctively knowing how to go through the set-up from beginning to end and I cannot find that kind of instruction.

I know it is important to have a low ISO setting. I know using the filter will also create a decrease in the f-stop setting by 2 stops. And as I am not after a blurring effect, I should stay with a fast shutter speed.

Check my setup steps here and correct me where necessary.

I believe I should first start off without filter in Auto and do an Auto focus and take note of my f-stop and shutter speed. I assume here that ISO will be around 100.

Before taking the picture, I should switch to A priority and also set focus to manual on the lens. I should also return the f-stop to whatever was shown when I was in Auto. (The filter will darken it to the equivalent of 2 stops.)
I guess that is one of my first questions? Do I do any manual adjustment to the f-stop setting or do I simply rely on the filter to do the job?

Is there anything else I need to do at that point? I am assuming that Live View will be pretty much useless. The Viewfinder not much better. I think it will be hard to assess just how effective the filter was until I download to a computer for analysis.

After I am comfortable with ND filter use for this purpose, I intend to buy a couple of more filters with higher values to begin to learn how to blur images.

Thank you for your help and your patience with a novice.
I have purchased an ND4 (2 step) filter primarily ... (show quote)


I am no expert on this but I do have a suggestion. I shoot a lot of waterfalls. I have shot them from Virginia to Maine. I have a variable neutral density filter and a 10stop neutral density filter. You have gotten some good advice here from some knowledgeable people. I see you are north of Richmond. A great place to practice with your filter would be Maymont in Richmond. They have many places to practice. A waterfall the Japanese garden and some fountains.I have helped some friends with the use of filters and had some very fine experiences. You can pm me if you would like.I will help in any way I can. :-D If you would like click on my flickr and pull up the waterfalls the exif data might be of some help.

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Apr 17, 2016 09:31:21   #
DerBiermeister Loc: North of Richmond VA
 
steveg48 wrote:


For number 1 - You determine the correct exposure without the filter however you like. Also focus. You do this on a tripod. Then put everything into manual and set the aperture to what you had determined. Set the speed 2 stops (factor of 4) slower to compensate for the filter. This should result in the same exposure you had without the filter but the water will be a little blurred. Actually I just realized that this is how you would do it for a 10 (factor of about 1000) or 16 (factor of 64000) stop filter when you can't see after the filter is in place. For a two stop filter, just put the filter on - set the aperture where you want it and, if in manual, then adjust the speed to give the right exposure. If in aperture priority the camera will adjust the speed.

For 2. The reason you need the filter is that without it, if it is bright and you want to use a wide aperture, the exposure may require a speed that is faster than the camera can do. If the speed is within the cameras range, you don't need the filter.

br br For number 1 - You determine the correct e... (show quote)


Thanks -- I will use your instructions on Tuesday (assuming the brown truck doesn't hit my street until later tomorrow afternoon). :mrgreen:

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Apr 17, 2016 09:36:50   #
DerBiermeister Loc: North of Richmond VA
 
al davis wrote:
I am no expert on this but I do have a suggestion. I shoot a lot of waterfalls. I have shot them from Virginia to Maine. I have a variable neutral density filter and a 10stop neutral density filter. You have gotten some good advice here from some knowledgeable people. I see you are north of Richmond. A great place to practice with your filter would be Maymont in Richmond. They have many places to practice. A waterfall the Japanese garden and some fountains.I have helped some friends with the use of filters and had some very fine experiences. You can pm me if you would like.I will help in any way I can. :-D If you would like click on my flickr and pull up the waterfalls the exif data might be of some help.
I am no expert on this but I do have a suggestion.... (show quote)


I keep forgetting that we have Maymont. I have never been but my wife has a couple of times. Now that I am getting a lot more serious about photography, I need to make visiting places like that a regular thing.

There is one waterfall in the woods (seen from the road) that I HAVE to get pictures of. It is in the country, not far from Scotchtown (Patrick Henry's boyhood home) and Beaverdam.

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Apr 17, 2016 14:33:24   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
DerBiermeister wrote:
I have purchased an ND4 (2 step) filter primarily to bring color brightness back to what otherwise would be washed-out images on wide angle when facing the sun. The filter arrives on Monday, so I have not yet been able to experiment with it.....


Sorry to say, but this is generally not a good use of an ND (or any other type of) filter.

Best way to reduce loss of contrast and reduced color saturation when shooting directly into the sun is to avoid using any filter at all.

I think when you experiment with it you'll find that the filter increases "veiling flare", which is what reduces contrast and color saturation. It also is likely to increase the appearance of "ghost flare" artifacts in images.

Rule of thumb when shooting directly at the sun: No filter. Most especially avoid multi-layer filters such as Circular Polarizers or Variable ND... those are even worse about the flare effects.

DerBiermeister wrote:
...There is one waterfall in the woods (seen from the road) that I HAVE to get pictures of...


The ND filter will be more useful for special slow shutter speed effects with flowing water... and for larger aperture/shallow depth of field in brighter light conditions. Not sure 2 stops will make enough differences. More commonly for still photography, stronger ND with the 6 or more stops effect can be needed.

Small increment ND may be needed to fine-tune exposure for video, though.

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Apr 17, 2016 18:05:44   #
AZNikon Loc: Mesa, AZ
 
When you say 90º do you mean the sun should be either to my right or left shoulder as I face the target? I just got one of these filters and haven't tried it yet. Thanks, Bob
Dngallagher wrote:
Yes, that is exactly when a cpl is best 90 degrees ....

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Apr 17, 2016 18:11:37   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
bobbennett wrote:
When you say 90º do you mean the sun should be either to my right or left shoulder as I face the target? I just got one of these filters and haven't tried it yet. Thanks, Bob


Yes, that puts the sun at 90 degrees ;)

http://www.engenphoto.com/how-to-use-a-cpl-filter-in-correctly/

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Apr 17, 2016 19:38:45   #
DerBiermeister Loc: North of Richmond VA
 
bobbennett wrote:
When you say 90º do you mean the sun should be either to my right or left shoulder as I face the target? I just got one of these filters and haven't tried it yet. Thanks, Bob



I am not positive but I suspect it is not just shoulders. IOW, as long as the sun is at right angles to the camera, that should also work. For instance, say you are aiming the camera down a road and it is fairly parallel to the road. If the sun happens to be at High Noon, almost straight up in the summer, I think the CPF would also work.
Never tried it -- just theorizing.

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Apr 17, 2016 20:53:48   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
DerBiermeister wrote:
Thanks -- this is all sinking in. I have a question on the DOF though. Look at the photo I posted above. It was probably that demonstration that enticed me to buy the ND4 filter. The difference between the overexposure and the beautiful image from using the filter is dramatic. However, I do not see any narrowing of DOF in that image. Why would that be?


I think that you have purchased the wrong filter but many have already told you that. For me I generally shoot in AV mode because I pay close attention to both my ISO settings and my DOF. If I find that the camera's meter is being fooled by a scene and over or under exposing areas of the image that are of interest I simply change the exposure by increasing or decreasing the EV values or I may take a couple of pics at different exposures and straighten it out in PP.

I am sure that you will find uses for your new ND filter, silky blurred water is pretty cool in streams, waterfalls, and even shots of seashores.

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Apr 17, 2016 21:17:48   #
DerBiermeister Loc: North of Richmond VA
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
I think that you have purchased the wrong filter but many have already told you that. For me I generally shoot in AV mode because I pay close attention to both my ISO settings and my DOF. If I find that the camera's meter is being fooled by a scene and over or under exposing areas of the image that are of interest I simply change the exposure by increasing or decreasing the EV values or I may take a couple of pics at different exposures and straighten it out in PP.

I am sure that you will find uses for your new ND filter, silky blurred water is pretty cool in streams, waterfalls, and even shots of seashores.
I think that you have purchased the wrong filter b... (show quote)


Thanks -- I am going to run a whole bunch of experiments when I get the ND4 in hand. I am developing a score sheet of kinds (WORD -- two columns, three rows) listing Pic #, Mode, Type Filter, Setting, f-stop, shutter, ISO, Comments.
Then when I get them downloaded to a computer, I can make sense of what I did.

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Apr 17, 2016 21:19:48   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
DerBiermeister wrote:
Thanks -- I am going to run a whole bunch of experiments when I get the ND4 in hand. I am developing a score sheet of kinds (WORD -- two columns, three rows) listing Pic #, Mode, Type Filter, Setting, f-stop, shutter, ISO, Comments.
Then when I get them downloaded to a computer, I can make sense of what I did.


I'm sure that you will get the hang of it quickly

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Apr 17, 2016 21:35:39   #
mcveed Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia (between trips)
 
We seem to go over this issue several times a year, some times, monthly. A simple ND filter reduces the amount of light that reaches your sensor. When you want to slow the shutter speed to cause deliberate blur - as in a waterfall, softening clouds, removing people or vehicles from a scene, an ND filter will allow you to slow your shutter speed without changing your aperture or ISO. If a scene is very brightly lit and your shutter speed is at the max and your ISO is at the bottom and the scene is still over exposed an ND filter of the correct strength will allow you to get the shot without changing your aperture. When you want to use fill flash on an outdoor subject with a shallow depth of field and your shutter speed is already higher than your flash sync speed, an ND filter can allow you to lower your shutter speed below the max flash sync speed. But the effect you showed in your picture could be got by just increasing shutter speed.

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Apr 17, 2016 22:19:59   #
dickwilber Loc: Indiana (currently)
 
DerBiermeister wrote:
I have purchased an ND4 (2 step) filter primarily to bring color brightness back to what otherwise would be washed-out images on wide angle when facing the sun.


Your description of the problem leads me to suspect lens flare, for which any filter would be counter productive. But when I see your image of the Silver River in the UP, I see a two stop over exposure (corrected by the ND filter). The problem is overexposure! I don't know what camera you are using or what mode you are in so I cannot determine why you have a 2 stop over exposure.

The cure is not a filter, but correct exposure! Determine why you are over exposing (wrong setting in manual exposure, exposure compensation set to +2, camera error, etc.), and stop doing that.

In any event, it is pretty difficult to get pictures without flare taken into a bright sun with a wide angle lens!

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