Isn't Exposure Compensation just a redundant feature (Page 6): I shoot manual like 99% of the time and never use exposure compensation. In fact, I look at the meter as a guideline and...

Mark7829 Loc: Calfornia

bkellyusa wrote:

I am still pretty new to photography at this level but I work very hard at it and study all the time. However, the one thing that still confuses me is Exposure Compensation. I just don't see the need for it. Why would I use Exposure Compensation to adjust exposure when I can simply adjust any parameter such as aperture, shutter speed or ISO as much as I want to anyway.

Please tell me where I am going wrong.

I shoot manual like 99% of the time and never use exposure compensation. In fact, I look at the meter as a guideline and use my own skills, knowledge and ability for my own settings. Yes, I do pay attention to the histogram and avoid clipping. I pay close attention to the highlights in the frame, and my goal is to eek out as much detail from the highlights as I possibly can and work the shadows in post.

The eyes of the viewer are always drawn to the brightest part of the image. There should be something there for them to see.

Don Fischer Loc: Antelope, Ore

SteveR wrote:

You're right, in manual mode exposure compensation is not available. It is only available in shutter or aperture priority where it does come in handy.

I've recently been using manual mode all the time. It sure looks to me like it works. By going up a third stop or two can change the photo quite a bit. A lot of time's the photo not steped up a bit is to bright.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

bkellyusa wrote:

I am still pretty new to photography at this level but I work very hard at it and study all the time. However, the one thing that still confuses me is Exposure Compensation. I just don't see the need for it. Why would I use Exposure Compensation to adjust exposure when I can simply adjust any parameter such as aperture, shutter speed or ISO as much as I want to anyway.

Please tell me where I am going wrong.

First, understand that Exposure Compensation (E.C.) is only applicable to the camera's auto exposure modes: Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority and Program... also now Auto ISO on many cameras. There is no EC on fully Manual exposure mode (although some cameras appear to use the same display scale).

Next, you need to know how a camera's built in meter works. It's called a reflective or reflectance meter and measures the light being reflected off of whatever it's being pointed at. Those things reflecting the light vary in color and tonality... some are light toned (reflect a lot of light), others are dark (absorb more of the light and reflect less), and others are sort of neutral... somewhere in between.

The camera and it's meter have no idea what they are being pointed at or what it's tonality might be. For sake of discussion let's assume the world is colorless and everything is in black and white... and all the shades of gray in between. Camera manufacturers calibrate their meters to assume everything is "18% gray". This actually works out pretty well a lot of the time, as a reasonable average in a typical scene. However, any time the subject/scene varies from the norm, there's a problem because the meter still thinks it's 18% gray.

Since the camera has to rely on its internal meter when determining and setting auto exposure. Those settings work pretty well whenever the scene/subject is average tonality, but will if it's brighter than average will want to underexpose... or if its darker than average, will skew toward overexposure. In other words, unless you take control of the situation and override it in some way, the camera's auto exposure modes will do their very best to treat everything as if it were 18% gray tonality.... causing poor exposures any time it's not.

Changing the camera's setting(s) in the auto exposure mode actually doesn't change exposure. In Aperture Priority mode you change the aperture to the desired setting and the camera responds by adjusting the shutter speed to produce and exposure for 18% gray tonality. In Shutter Priority mode you change the shutter speed and the camera responds by adjusting the aperture size to make an 18% gray exposure. In Program mode you can't adjust either the shutter or the aperture, the camera handles both and sets a combination that will produce 18% gray.

Now found on many cameras, Auto ISO (with camera set to Manual) is actually just another form of auto exposure. Here you can select both shutter and aperture, and the camera will adjust the ISO to... you guessed it... produce an 18% gray exposure. (Presumably Auto ISO combined with any of the other auto exposure modes would, too... but I have no idea because I'd never use an auto/auto mode... serves no purpose I can think of and might give weird results.)

So you need some means of overriding the camera's requirement to render everything the same 18% gray... some way to adjust it so that brighter than average scenes or subjects are rendered correctly, or that darker ones remain dark toned. This is where EC comes into play. The photographer needs to observe the subject/scene and make some adjustments.

The alternative is to switch the camera to Manual mode (with Auto ISO turned off) and lock down all the settings. But that's not always possible. There are times you simply have to use an auto exposure mode, to "get the shot". For example, if you're shooting in situations where the light is changing rather quickly.... or the subject is moving through different lighting conditions such as in and out of shadows and full sun... or you just need to be "ready for anything".... it is sometimes necessary to use one or another of the auto exposure modes. And when that's the case, when you use any of the auto exposure modes, you'll be able to get better results if you learn to recognize when your scene/subject isn't 18% gray and to adjust Exposure Compensation appropriately to fine tune the exposure accuracy of your images.

With many modern digital cameras we have a helpful tool... a histogram that graphically displays the measured tonalities in any scene. This can help confirm your judgment of whether or not to use EC and how much to apply, giving you opportunity to make corrections and reshoot immediately. Don't trust the image playback... that's influenced they the ambient light where ever you happen to be viewing it (and the LCD screens of cameras aren't all what well calibrated either). The histogram is a better reference, though you need to learn how to read one.

Someone mentioned strongly backlit situations... such as a sunset behind someone whose portrait your taking. Also think of photographing a bride in a white gown in a snow scene... or a black bear in a coal mine. All these are examples of extreme lighting situations that will fool the camera's meter, which in turn will cause any form of auto exposure to be incorrect. The world is full of tonalities that vary from the average. So it's up to you, teh photographers, to recognize this and correct things with EC.

Highly recommended reading: "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. That might be the best photography book you'll ever read!

Note: I have no idea where "17% gray" is coming from. AFAIK the most commonly discussed standard is "18% gray", also sometimes referred to as "middle gray". I do know some cameras and meters use 15% gray instead... but this thread is one of the few times I've seen 17% gray widely referenced. So, don't be confused by that.

Don Fischer Loc: Antelope, Ore

that's interesting. When in manual mode and changing the setting with the exp comp dial, what is happening?

dirtpusher Loc: tulsa oklahoma

amfoto1 wrote:

First, understand that Exposure Compensation (E.C.) is only applicable to the camera's auto exposure modes: Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority and Program... also now Auto ISO on many cameras. There is no EC on fully Manual exposure mode (although some cameras appear to use the same display scale).

Next, you need to know how a camera's built in meter works. It's called a reflective or reflectance meter and measures the light being reflected off of whatever it's being pointed at. Those things reflecting the light vary in color and tonality... some are light toned (reflect a lot of light), others are dark (absorb more of the light and reflect less), and others are sort of neutral... somewhere in between.

The camera and it's meter have no idea what they are being pointed at or what it's tonality might be. For sake of discussion let's assume the world is colorless and everything is in black and white... and all the shades of gray in between. Camera manufacturers calibrate their meters to assume everything is "18% gray". This actually works out pretty well a lot of the time, as a reasonable average in a typical scene. However, any time the subject/scene varies from the norm, there's a problem because the meter still thinks it's 18% gray.

Since the camera has to rely on its internal meter when determining and setting auto exposure. Those settings work pretty well whenever the scene/subject is average tonality, but will if it's brighter than average will want to underexpose... or if its darker than average, will skew toward overexposure. In other words, unless you take control of the situation and override it in some way, the camera's auto exposure modes will do their very best to treat everything as if it were 18% gray tonality.... causing poor exposures any time it's not.

Changing the camera's setting(s) in the auto exposure mode actually doesn't change exposure. In Aperture Priority mode you change the aperture to the desired setting and the camera responds by adjusting the shutter speed to produce and exposure for 18% gray tonality. In Shutter Priority mode you change the shutter speed and the camera responds by adjusting the aperture size to make an 18% gray exposure. In Program mode you can't adjust either the shutter or the aperture, the camera handles both and sets a combination that will produce 18% gray.

Now found on many cameras, Auto ISO (with camera set to Manual) is actually just another form of auto exposure. Here you can select both shutter and aperture, and the camera will adjust the ISO to... you guessed it... produce an 18% gray exposure. (Presumably Auto ISO combined with any of the other auto exposure modes would, too... but I have no idea because I'd never use an auto/auto mode... serves no purpose I can think of and might give weird results.)

So you need some means of overriding the camera's requirement to render everything the same 18% gray... some way to adjust it so that brighter than average scenes or subjects are rendered correctly, or that darker ones remain dark toned. This is where EC comes into play. The photographer needs to observe the subject/scene and make some adjustments.

The alternative is to switch the camera to Manual mode (with Auto ISO turned off) and lock down all the settings. But that's not always possible. There are times you simply have to use an auto exposure mode, to "get the shot". For example, if you're shooting in situations where the light is changing rather quickly.... or the subject is moving through different lighting conditions such as in and out of shadows and full sun... or you just need to be "ready for anything".... it is sometimes necessary to use one or another of the auto exposure modes. And when that's the case, when you use any of the auto exposure modes, you'll be able to get better results if you learn to recognize when your scene/subject isn't 18% gray and to adjust Exposure Compensation appropriately to fine tune the exposure accuracy of your images.

With many modern digital cameras we have a helpful tool... a histogram that graphically displays the measured tonalities in any scene. This can help confirm your judgment of whether or not to use EC and how much to apply, giving you opportunity to make corrections and reshoot immediately. Don't trust the image playback... that's influenced they the ambient light where ever you happen to be viewing it (and the LCD screens of cameras aren't all what well calibrated either). The histogram is a better reference, though you need to learn how to read one.

Someone mentioned strongly backlit situations... such as a sunset behind someone whose portrait your taking. Also think of photographing a bride in a white gown in a snow scene... or a black bear in a coal mine. All these are examples of extreme lighting situations that will fool the camera's meter, which in turn will cause any form of auto exposure to be incorrect. The world is full of tonalities that vary from the average. So it's up to you, teh photographers, to recognize this and correct things with EC.

Highly recommended reading: "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. That might be the best photography book you'll ever read!

Note: I have no idea where "17% gray" is coming from. AFAIK the most commonly discussed standard is "18% gray", also sometimes referred to as "middle gray". I do know some cameras and meters use 15% gray instead... but this thread is one of the few times I've seen 17% gray widely referenced. So, don't be confused by that.

First, understand that Exposure Compensation (E.C.... (show quote)

17 18 pert near the same almost :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ

I'm not going to read all 6 pages of answers, but hopefully someone has the right answer. I saw several answers on page one that don't look right at all.

bkellyusa wrote:

I am still pretty new to photography at this level but I work very hard at it and study all the time. However, the one thing that still confuses me is Exposure Compensation. I just don't see the need for it. Why would I use Exposure Compensation to adjust exposure when I can simply adjust any parameter such as aperture, shutter speed or ISO as much as I want to anyway.

Please tell me where I am going wrong.

jgunkler

It is very useful in automatic exposure bracketing (or HDR.)

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Don Fischer wrote:

that's interesting. When in manual mode and changing the setting with the exp comp dial, what is happening?

Exactly the same thing happens in M as happens in A, S or P modes. The reading from the light meter is changed. That is all it actually does directly.

Los-Angeles-Shooter Loc: Los Angeles

bkellyusa wrote:

I am still pretty new to photography at this level but I work very hard at it and study all the time. However, the one thing that still confuses me is Exposure Compensation. I just don't see the need for it. Why would I use Exposure Compensation to adjust exposure when I can simply adjust any parameter such as aperture, shutter speed or ISO as much as I want to anyway.

Please tell me where I am going wrong.

It is used in the various "auto" and "scene" modes, and IMO is useless when in manual mode.

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Apaflo wrote:

You are not really wrong, but your vision has not ... (show quote)

I beg to differ a bit. As someone who shoots LOTS of gymnasium sports in a wide assortment of schools - volleyball and basketball in particular - I can tell you that the lighting is NOT the same from one end of the court to the other. I have to adjust my camera settings pretty frequently. That said, those variations are not as variable as sun to shade either.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

donnahde wrote:

I beg to differ a bit. As someone who shoots LOTS of gymnasium sports in a wide assortment of schools - volleyball and basketball in particular - I can tell you that the lighting is NOT the same from one end of the court to the other. I have to adjust my camera settings pretty frequently. That said, those variations are not as variable as sun to shade either.

Don't misunderstand! I said the light does not change from shot to shot, and made no mention of moving from one end of the court to another.

The point was that if you are standing in some given location the light is not going to change. If you use any auto mode the exposure will be changed depending not on the light, but on the subject! Shooting a player that has a white jersey will get a darker image than shooting a player with a black jersey. Not what is wanted! And the answer is to use Manual Exposure mode with AutoISO off.

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Apaflo wrote:

Don't misunderstand! I said the light does not ch... (show quote)

Ok, I do agree with that.

bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN

amfoto1 wrote:

First, understand that Exposure Compensation (E.C.) is only applicable to the camera's auto exposure modes: Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority and Program... also now Auto ISO on many cameras. There is no EC on fully Manual exposure mode (although some cameras appear to use the same display scale).

Next, you need to know how a camera's built in meter works. It's called a reflective or reflectance meter and measures the light being reflected off of whatever it's being pointed at. Those things reflecting the light vary in color and tonality... some are light toned (reflect a lot of light), others are dark (absorb more of the light and reflect less), and others are sort of neutral... somewhere in between.

The camera and it's meter have no idea what they are being pointed at or what it's tonality might be. For sake of discussion let's assume the world is colorless and everything is in black and white... and all the shades of gray in between. Camera manufacturers calibrate their meters to assume everything is "18% gray". This actually works out pretty well a lot of the time, as a reasonable average in a typical scene. However, any time the subject/scene varies from the norm, there's a problem because the meter still thinks it's 18% gray.

Since the camera has to rely on its internal meter when determining and setting auto exposure. Those settings work pretty well whenever the scene/subject is average tonality, but will if it's brighter than average will want to underexpose... or if its darker than average, will skew toward overexposure. In other words, unless you take control of the situation and override it in some way, the camera's auto exposure modes will do their very best to treat everything as if it were 18% gray tonality.... causing poor exposures any time it's not.

Changing the camera's setting(s) in the auto exposure mode actually doesn't change exposure. In Aperture Priority mode you change the aperture to the desired setting and the camera responds by adjusting the shutter speed to produce and exposure for 18% gray tonality. In Shutter Priority mode you change the shutter speed and the camera responds by adjusting the aperture size to make an 18% gray exposure. In Program mode you can't adjust either the shutter or the aperture, the camera handles both and sets a combination that will produce 18% gray.

Now found on many cameras, Auto ISO (with camera set to Manual) is actually just another form of auto exposure. Here you can select both shutter and aperture, and the camera will adjust the ISO to... you guessed it... produce an 18% gray exposure. (Presumably Auto ISO combined with any of the other auto exposure modes would, too... but I have no idea because I'd never use an auto/auto mode... serves no purpose I can think of and might give weird results.)

So you need some means of overriding the camera's requirement to render everything the same 18% gray... some way to adjust it so that brighter than average scenes or subjects are rendered correctly, or that darker ones remain dark toned. This is where EC comes into play. The photographer needs to observe the subject/scene and make some adjustments.

The alternative is to switch the camera to Manual mode (with Auto ISO turned off) and lock down all the settings. But that's not always possible. There are times you simply have to use an auto exposure mode, to "get the shot". For example, if you're shooting in situations where the light is changing rather quickly.... or the subject is moving through different lighting conditions such as in and out of shadows and full sun... or you just need to be "ready for anything".... it is sometimes necessary to use one or another of the auto exposure modes. And when that's the case, when you use any of the auto exposure modes, you'll be able to get better results if you learn to recognize when your scene/subject isn't 18% gray and to adjust Exposure Compensation appropriately to fine tune the exposure accuracy of your images.

With many modern digital cameras we have a helpful tool... a histogram that graphically displays the measured tonalities in any scene. This can help confirm your judgment of whether or not to use EC and how much to apply, giving you opportunity to make corrections and reshoot immediately. Don't trust the image playback... that's influenced they the ambient light where ever you happen to be viewing it (and the LCD screens of cameras aren't all what well calibrated either). The histogram is a better reference, though you need to learn how to read one.

Someone mentioned strongly backlit situations... such as a sunset behind someone whose portrait your taking. Also think of photographing a bride in a white gown in a snow scene... or a black bear in a coal mine. All these are examples of extreme lighting situations that will fool the camera's meter, which in turn will cause any form of auto exposure to be incorrect. The world is full of tonalities that vary from the average. So it's up to you, teh photographers, to recognize this and correct things with EC.

Highly recommended reading: "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. That might be the best photography book you'll ever read!

Note: I have no idea where "17% gray" is coming from. AFAIK the most commonly discussed standard is "18% gray", also sometimes referred to as "middle gray". I do know some cameras and meters use 15% gray instead... but this thread is one of the few times I've seen 17% gray widely referenced. So, don't be confused by that.

First, understand that Exposure Compensation (E.C.... (show quote)

bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN

amfoto1 wrote:

First, understand that Exposure Compensation (E.C.) is only applicable to the camera's auto exposure modes: Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority and Program... also now Auto ISO on many cameras. There is no EC on fully Manual exposure mode (although some cameras appear to use the same display scale).

Next, you need to know how a camera's built in meter works. It's called a reflective or reflectance meter and measures the light being reflected off of whatever it's being pointed at. Those things reflecting the light vary in color and tonality... some are light toned (reflect a lot of light), others are dark (absorb more of the light and reflect less), and others are sort of neutral... somewhere in between.

The camera and it's meter have no idea what they are being pointed at or what it's tonality might be. For sake of discussion let's assume the world is colorless and everything is in black and white... and all the shades of gray in between. Camera manufacturers calibrate their meters to assume everything is "18% gray". This actually works out pretty well a lot of the time, as a reasonable average in a typical scene. However, any time the subject/scene varies from the norm, there's a problem because the meter still thinks it's 18% gray.

Since the camera has to rely on its internal meter when determining and setting auto exposure. Those settings work pretty well whenever the scene/subject is average tonality, but will if it's brighter than average will want to underexpose... or if its darker than average, will skew toward overexposure. In other words, unless you take control of the situation and override it in some way, the camera's auto exposure modes will do their very best to treat everything as if it were 18% gray tonality.... causing poor exposures any time it's not.

Changing the camera's setting(s) in the auto exposure mode actually doesn't change exposure. In Aperture Priority mode you change the aperture to the desired setting and the camera responds by adjusting the shutter speed to produce and exposure for 18% gray tonality. In Shutter Priority mode you change the shutter speed and the camera responds by adjusting the aperture size to make an 18% gray exposure. In Program mode you can't adjust either the shutter or the aperture, the camera handles both and sets a combination that will produce 18% gray.

Now found on many cameras, Auto ISO (with camera set to Manual) is actually just another form of auto exposure. Here you can select both shutter and aperture, and the camera will adjust the ISO to... you guessed it... produce an 18% gray exposure. (Presumably Auto ISO combined with any of the other auto exposure modes would, too... but I have no idea because I'd never use an auto/auto mode... serves no purpose I can think of and might give weird results.)

So you need some means of overriding the camera's requirement to render everything the same 18% gray... some way to adjust it so that brighter than average scenes or subjects are rendered correctly, or that darker ones remain dark toned. This is where EC comes into play. The photographer needs to observe the subject/scene and make some adjustments.

The alternative is to switch the camera to Manual mode (with Auto ISO turned off) and lock down all the settings. But that's not always possible. There are times you simply have to use an auto exposure mode, to "get the shot". For example, if you're shooting in situations where the light is changing rather quickly.... or the subject is moving through different lighting conditions such as in and out of shadows and full sun... or you just need to be "ready for anything".... it is sometimes necessary to use one or another of the auto exposure modes. And when that's the case, when you use any of the auto exposure modes, you'll be able to get better results if you learn to recognize when your scene/subject isn't 18% gray and to adjust Exposure Compensation appropriately to fine tune the exposure accuracy of your images.

With many modern digital cameras we have a helpful tool... a histogram that graphically displays the measured tonalities in any scene. This can help confirm your judgment of whether or not to use EC and how much to apply, giving you opportunity to make corrections and reshoot immediately. Don't trust the image playback... that's influenced they the ambient light where ever you happen to be viewing it (and the LCD screens of cameras aren't all what well calibrated either). The histogram is a better reference, though you need to learn how to read one.

Someone mentioned strongly backlit situations... such as a sunset behind someone whose portrait your taking. Also think of photographing a bride in a white gown in a snow scene... or a black bear in a coal mine. All these are examples of extreme lighting situations that will fool the camera's meter, which in turn will cause any form of auto exposure to be incorrect. The world is full of tonalities that vary from the average. So it's up to you, teh photographers, to recognize this and correct things with EC.

Highly recommended reading: "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. That might be the best photography book you'll ever read!

Note: I have no idea where "17% gray" is coming from. AFAIK the most commonly discussed standard is "18% gray", also sometimes referred to as "middle gray". I do know some cameras and meters use 15% gray instead... but this thread is one of the few times I've seen 17% gray widely referenced. So, don't be confused by that.

First, understand that Exposure Compensation (E.C.... (show quote)

Can't say Thank You enough you for your incredibly detailed and informative response. I really appreciate it.

bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN

Apaflo wrote:

Don't misunderstand! I said the light does not ch... (show quote)

Apaflo,

Just wanted to make sure I said "Thanks" for your lengthy and informative responses. I appreciate the time and effort you made on this issue. Thanks again!