Again, some of you apparently "knowledgeable and capable" folks seem to be more interested in beating this OP down, maybe even discouraging him - or her - from continuing with photography. Pity.

I see someone who admits to being inexperienced, but who wants to improve. As such, he or she is seeking guidance. So far, some here have provided some useful suggestions and guidance. Some others seem to be more interested in belittling this person. As we say in the South. bless your hearts.

One or two have made it clear that you would't hire this person. So what? What gives you the idea that he or she would even consent to work for people so hurtful as are you. May you live interesting lives.

Again, some of you apparently "knowledgeable and capable" folks seem to be more interested in beating this OP down, maybe even discouraging him - or her - from continuing with photography. Pity.

I see someone who admits to being inexperienced, but who wants to improve. As such, he or she is seeking guidance. So far, some here have provided some useful suggestions and guidance. Some others seem to be more interested in belittling this person. As we say in the South. bless your hearts.

One or two have made it clear that you would't hire this person. So what? What gives you the idea that he or she would even consent to work for people so hurtful as are you. May you live interesting lives.

Well, now. This is indeed an interesting conversation. And, as it turns out, it servrs as a clear example of why one should take information gleaned from online forums with more than a few grains of salt.

The OP was seeking valid information. The facts he - or she, as the case may be - were, quite simply, what sort of fee arrangement is to be expected for a job as a second shooter.

Valid responses include the one offered by Erv: "Well I think you should find someone that will let you tag along with them that do weddings. Watch how it is done, take pictures for the fun of it and learn what has to be taken. If your shots turn out good, give them to him free! If they don't, keep tagging along till you get the goods shots he is looking for. Then you can talk money! It is a hard job to do and get everything right and to keep up with what is going on throughout the wedding. You need to be in the right place at the right time for every shot! But doing this, you have to stay out of his way too!!"

That is truly a fine way to learn. Doing such a thing provides a still-learning photographer with a great way to gain valuable experience. This is an important factor. We all ought to be willing to pass along our blessings, be it experience, instruction or whatever. We all of us started somewhere, and none of us get very far without some help along the way.

Still, even if the person in question is simply acting as a "gofer," an assistant, said person ought be paid something. Why? For the value of his or her time. Time is a funny thing. We all of us have just so much time, and no one of us knows how much., Once we use a second, it is GONE! You can't get a re-do, a rebate, a refund, etc. The value of a person's time is HUGE! Do not EVER be so arrogant as to discount the value of time someone is willing to give to you. They are, in fact, giving to you an unrecoverable piece of their life.

If you do not wish to pay cash for an assistant, you'd better be willing to set aside the arrogance, and set aside the feeling that some have expressed not so subtly here that you are God's gift to photography. Sit down with the assistant, go over what they did, how they can improve. If they did actually shoot, some constructive criticism would be called for.

Those of you who've stomped this OP need to go find someplace else to vent your collective spleens. At least tdekany offered some useful information: "Do study these links and compare your shots. Do you really think you are ready?

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1405899

This is a wedding shooter

http://photodh.com/blog/

And here is the Wedding forum for you to learn from

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/48"


Now, if you intend to use a second shooter, and make them use their own gear, and expect no access to what they've shot, then you are off the mark. You wanna go this way, then provide the second with a camera/flash/etc/, If they're getting very little, save experience, from the deal, then you need to carry more of the load.

As to the liability that Jim Quist mentions: "As I understand the law, If I hire you to work for me and you get injured on the job, (slip on the ice, trip over something...)then I am liable for your medical expenses.

If, as my employee, you cause damage of some kind...
(you help the the groom move the wedding cake and it tips over, you fire a flash and it triggers a seizure with someone who has epilepsy, you are blamed for the lace on the wedding dress getting caught on something, etc)

I can be sued for those damages.

So I don't hire second shooters."

Jim, no matter what you choose to do in the real world, you will incur this sort of liability for anyone you hire. Fact of life, bub. I suppose that you are so perfect that no one who hires you to shoot an occasion ever has these worries about you, hm?

Capture 48 offers a valid point: "They get to see how I interact with clients, they get experience learning to pose, they gain a lot of business experience, and they get to carry my photography bag around for a few hours, they get experience changing lenses. All this stuff you may take for granted they need to learn. For a photog trying to get into the business, or a college student trying to decide on this as a future career, this experience is invaluable. My seconds rarely shoot anything, only when I know the shoot is in the can, do I allow them to shoot."

Fair enough. But pay them SOMETHING. Read again the value of asking for a piece of someone's time, of someone's LIFE.

Are you the greatest photographer EVER? Fine, then pass along what you';ve learned. Some of you have already passed along some worthwhile examples of the sort of ass one ought never to work for.

Dude, how am I supposed to get experience with out going out there and doing it? Yeah, I see that you suggest asking friends if they will let me take some pics at their weddings, but let's be real...

Reading a book is never even close to going out there and doing it. The whole point of being a second, or even assistant shooter is got GET the experience to become good enough.
Maybe my limited experience is not up to the standards you "Pros" require, But you know I want to get there and I think the best way to do it it to do it.