A Challenge to the "Scientists" Here: I have noticed a sizeable group of proponents of "science" here, particularly when trying to discuss contradictions in the global warming/change...

davefales Loc: Virginia

I have noticed a sizeable group of proponents of "science" here, particularly when trying to discuss contradictions in the global warming/change "science".

Here is an interesting detailed report in NY Mag of an apparent fraudulent study published in "Science" magazine.

Executive summary: a graduate student took a valid data base regarding public attitudes on gay marriage, manipulated it, then claimed to have used a sampling company to sample 10,000 respondents. Why? Apparently to create an authoritative study about public attitudes. Problem? The sampling company does not know him.

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/05/how-a-grad-student-uncovered-a-huge-fraud.html?mid=twitter_scienceofus&utm_content=buffer02f7e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

So, once again, there is evidence that "science" is hardly the pure endeavor that some would have us believe.

nakkh Loc: San Mateo, Ca

It happens:
http://listverse.com/2008/04/09/top-10-scientific-frauds-and-hoaxes/
http://explorable.com/science-fraud

NeilL Loc: British-born Canadian

davefales wrote:

I have noticed a sizeable group of proponents of &... (show quote)

Is Political Science "science"?

Wellhiem Loc: Sunny England.

davefales wrote:

I have noticed a sizeable group of proponents of &... (show quote)

There have been number of these cases coming to light recently. The problem seems to be, a large number of bogus on-line "science" publications. They will publish anything if the author pays enough. It's becoming increasingly difficult to tell them apart.

Pilot 6 Loc: Eugene, OR

So----what's your "challenge"?

OldDoc Loc: New York

Actually, this is a pretty good example of how science should work. A published paper was examined in a variety of ways, as the Times report says, " It (the original paper) rerouted countless researchers agendas, inspired activists to change their approach to voter outreach, generated shifts in grant funding, and launched follow-up experiments." Eventually, the fraud was revealed, and the results discarded. Retractions and "corrections" appear almost daily in the scientific literature as the process works itself out. That's why you must never believe news reports of dramatic breakthroughs - there generally hasn't been sufficient time for true peer review, which is more than a reviewer or two analyzing the paper, but consists of other scientists trying to replicate the original studies.

OldDoc Loc: New York

OldDoc wrote:

Actually, this is a pretty good example of how sci... (show quote)

Oh...btw, I am one of the "Scientists" you refer to, having spent 40 years engaged in laboratory science.

davefales Loc: Virginia

OldDoc wrote:

Actually, this is a pretty good example of how science should work.

Don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you suggesting fraudulent studies are good for science...to test it? What happens if the fraud is not discovered?

NeilL Loc: British-born Canadian

OldDoc wrote:

Oh...btw, I am one of the "Scientists" you refer to, having spent 40 years engaged in laboratory science.

One problem is that those scientists in research have to produce results, or publish papers, in order to get the grant money. Too many of them are "doctoring" their findings in the hurry to be published. Fraud happens.

Wellhiem Loc: Sunny England.

davefales wrote:

Don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you suggesting fraudulent studies are good for science...to test it? What happens if the fraud is not discovered?

There have been quite a few bogus reports, made for the express purpose of outing these false publications. So I would say that that's generally a good thing.
It's also a good idea to look at who's funding these projects.

davefales Loc: Virginia

nakkh wrote:

http://explorable.com/science-fraud

I found this one interesting until the end: "Scientists are paid according to the number of papers that they produce, and this leads to rushed and shoddy science, as well as discriminating against female researchers who take maternity leave or work part time to juggle bringing up children and work."

Does this suggest that female researchers have to resort to fraud to make up for their less than full-time participation? C'mon

davefales Loc: Virginia

Pilot 6 wrote:

So----what's your "challenge"?

I believe the challenge is to scientists to shun and shame "researchers" who resort to obvious fraud, i.e., to police their profession. Integrity is fundamental to their profession. As others have noted, the attraction of funding by both private and government souces seems to have compromised an alarming number of them.

Though, in the particular case cited above, I suspect a political agenda where funding was a secondary factor.

GeorgeH Loc: Jonesboro, GA

Scientists make mistakes. My father, a PhD Chem Eng, told of an AIChE meeting were a presenter had, quite in error, plotted a function against itself. Nice straight line! Sadly the error wasn't caught before the poor sod was exposed before his peers. In this case the mistake was quite innocent, apparently.

I suspect that personal agendas may factor in. Remember the MD who published a paper in The Lancet on vaccine side effects? His sample size was extremely small. He was subsequently exposed as being in the pay of personal injury lawyers. See this http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/v9/n12/full/ni1208-1317.html

But in the mean time his junk "science" has spawned a host of folks choosing not to immunize their children. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

NeilL Loc: British-born Canadian

davefales wrote:

I believe the challenge is to scientists to shun and shame "researchers" who resort to obvious fraud, i.e., to police their profession. Integrity is fundamental to their profession. As others have noted, the attraction of funding by both private and government souces seems to have compromised an alarming number of them.

Though, in the particular case cited above, I suspect a political agenda where funding was a secondary factor.

Published papers are subjected to peer reviews. The "Old Pals Act" comes in to play and so this fraud often does not come to light.

mwalsh Loc: Houston

davefales wrote:

I believe the challenge is to scientists to shun and shame "researchers" who resort to obvious fraud, i.e., to police their profession. Integrity is fundamental to their profession. As others have noted, the attraction of funding by both private and government souces seems to have compromised an alarming number of them.

Though, in the particular case cited above, I suspect a political agenda where funding was a secondary factor.

I think they do "police their profession."

This fraudulent work got outed didn't it ...