Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Check out Advice from the Pros section of our forum.
Main Photography Discussion
Arrogance and humility
Page <prev 2 of 4 next> last>>
Apr 14, 2015 07:35:32   #
Bob Grove
 
waykee7 wrote:

I have a friend who tells people at a local photography club that "I only shoot film." I knew someone else who would say "I don't believe in post processing." I have a friend, who is a fine photographer, who tells me "Really, I only shoot 4x5 but I want to move to 8x10". Another tells me that you'll never equal a silver gelatin print, which is a hugely sweeping commentary. Someone else on the forum asked disparagingly of another, "what are you trying to be, Ansel Adams?"
I am appalled at the lack of manners towards beginners by some on the forum. Geez, why be cruel and petty to someone unknown to you? Does that make one feel big and important or all-knowing?
Wayne
br I have a friend who tells people at a local ph... (show quote)


Nicely expressed, Wayne, and reading between the lines, it's obvious to me that you know the answers to all the philosophical questions you raise. Yes, while the vast majority of members here are non-combative and helpful, there are a few intolerant regulars who seem to find it necessary to belittle newcomers who hope to find assistance in expanding their knowledge in this technical specialty. Such arrogant rudeness is an admission of their own insecurity. They've been around since the early days of "flaming" on the internet, and while you can ignore them, they probably won't go away.

Bob

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 08:14:03   #
RJWagons Loc: Lake Ridge Virginia
 
Amen!

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 08:33:54   #
rjaywallace Loc: Wisconsin
 
waykee7, you have expressed a number of worthy thoughts in your post.

Reply
 
 
Apr 14, 2015 08:38:52   #
phlash46 Loc: Westchester County, New York
 
Very well said Wayne! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 08:40:10   #
Ranjan Loc: Currently Cyber-Nation!
 
Chuck_893 wrote:
Very well reasoned and written essay, Wayne. I read it through twice. For me, the key is above. I see it all the time on the 'hog, it's happened to me (and I'm not a beginner), and I think it's kind'a the internet disease. I'm not sure why it is. It's similar to the behavior of an awful lot of drivers, protected and anonymous in the steel cocoon. It's behavior many would not exhibit in line at the grocery (or maybe they would). I guess that in the last analysis it's just a part of modern life to be put up with. :hunf: Good essay. Illegitimi non carborundum. :D
Very well reasoned and written essay, Wayne. I rea... (show quote)


Well-said! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 08:49:27   #
fotodon Loc: Oberlin, OH
 
MarkD wrote:
It constantly amazes me how different people are. I try to accept people as they are. Some are harder to accept than others. I associate with those I like. I try to stay away from those I don't like, and I try to not let them bother me. Letting them bother or upset me serves no useful purpose. It won't change them, and it doesn't make me feel better.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 08:56:12   #
fotodon Loc: Oberlin, OH
 
waykee7 wrote:
The next time we have our nose in the air making some pronouncement that has the implicit message that our approach to photography makes us better than everyone else, or our work is 100% good, and that we have a monopoly on art that the novice would do well to fall on their knees and wail "oh I am not worthy master!", or that we are reading the RUSSIANS, we might consider being careful because life has a way of leveling ego.
Wayne


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Words of wisdom for all of us!! My mom used to say "What goes around, comes around". At 65 yrs young I have learned this to be very true.

Reply
Check out Video for DSLR and Point and Shoot Cameras section of our forum.
Apr 14, 2015 08:57:09   #
jcboy3
 
The only Brautigan novel I know of where he mentions "reading the Russians" is "A Confederate General From Big Sur". The two places where this is mentioned are

“He was reading the Russians with that certain heavy tone people put in their voices when they say, “I’m reading the Russians.””

and

“Sure there’s God-damn shelter down here. What do you think I’m living in, a burrow? That business in Oakland was something else. A man needs the proper atmosphere to read the Russians.”

To which of Brautigan's novels are you referring?

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 09:11:57   #
tinplater Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
 
No question serendipity plays a huge role in the success of an image capture. Some folks are way more "lucky" than I! As the saying goes, you make your own luck.

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 09:22:41   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Nicely written, Wayne.

I'm reading "The Memorial Volume of Photographic Researches of Ferdinand Hurter & Vero C. Driffield"

--Bob
8-)

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 09:23:29   #
Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida
 
R
waykee7 wrote:
In one of Richard Brautigan's novels there is a character who goes to parties, saddles up to people, and pronounces solemnly "I'm reading the RUSSIANS." And that's all he says.

I have a friend who tells people at a local photography club that "I only shoot film." I knew someone else who would say "I don't believe in post processing." I have a friend, who is a fine photographer, who tells me "Really, I only shoot 4x5 but I want to move to 8x10". Another tells me that you'll never equal a silver gelatin print, which is a hugely sweeping commentary. Someone else on the forum asked disparagingly of another, "what are you trying to be, Ansel Adams?"

I've know two people who knew Adams, and they both loved him, not as a photographer, though certainly they liked his work, but they loved him as a PERSON. One of them, a former park superintendent at Yosemite, said he was one of the most intelligent, and most pensive person he'd ever known. He was also a humble man.

So my Nikon D90 that I shot for 5 years seemed to overexpose about 1/3 to 1/2 f-stop. I typically adjusted that in post processing. If you don't believe in post processing, does making that adjustment "in camera" make you a better photographer? Does it make you a better person?

Or if I employ an old film trick of underexposing by 1/2 to 1 full f-stop in increase saturation of a shot I'm making with my digital camera, is this cheating?

Is a pinhole camera the only pure form of photography? Is pureness the goal?

Did Ansel Adams have a monopoly on pre-visualization? That is, when he died, did pre-visualization stop? If I shoot "in camera" in color but I use SilverEfex2 to get to what I wanted the photograph to look like in b&w when I took the shot, am I cheating? Did Ansel cheat when he burned and dodged, or used filters while shooting or did he cheat by printing on anything other than #2 paper? He thought Moonrise over Hernandez was a dud when he first printed it. . . should he have stopped there? Or was his finesse in printing it really the creation of a fake?

And what about accidents. Several years ago I was hiking in Utah. A yellow-orange dragonfly landed on a bush. It was backlit, and the colors were especially beautiful. I shot at 300mm and when I looked at the shot in the camera, it was beautiful. I told my daughter, "THAT was the shot of the trip." When we got it home and put it on the monitor, we were surprised and pleased to see that the dragonfly had its lower jaw piece dropped, and it looks all the world like he's smiling. So that was an accident, I didn't realize it at the time, so should I not take credit for the photograph?

Here's what I think for what it's worth (probably not much). Photography for me is always a lesson in humility. I like about 10% of my photographs, sometimes a little more, sometimes less. Even after taking a couple hundred thousand photographs, I cannot predict how the abstraction will look that occurs when one takes a 3-dimensional scene and reduces it to 2-dimensions with absolute certainty. All photography, like all art, is an abstraction. I continually make mistakes, even though I'm careful. Last week in a remote area I will likely never visit again, I accidentally turned a dial to "auto-ISO" and shot an incredible sunset in the Land of Standing Rocks at ISO 700. I often muff focus. I once absent-mindedly reformatted a memory card before I downloaded the photos. I get a lot of portraits with people's eyes closed. I catch dorky expressions. I get fooled by backlighting STILL. I have shots ruined by camera movement. I don't have a camera with me when a once-in-a-lifetime shot presents itself. After 44 years of pursuing this art form (among others) I am reminded that someone in the right place and the right time with little interest in photography can make with luck a masterpiece photograph that will be more stunning, more profound, and capture more of the beauty of the natural world or the drama of the human condition than any photograph I have, or will ever, make. Vivian Maier's extraordinary work, which will outlast any single individual's arrogance, was produced by an intensely shy and presumably modest, diminutive woman of immense talent. I am appalled at the lack of manners towards beginners by some on the forum. Geez, why be cruel and petty to someone unknown to you? Does that make one feel big and important or all-knowing? It is the nature of the medium to remind us of humbleness, and if it doesn't do that, then it says a lot about one's own pathology and shallowness. The next time we have our nose in the air making some pronouncement that has the implicit message that our approach to photography makes us better than everyone else, or our work is 100% good, and that we have a monopoly on art that the novice would do well to fall on their knees and wail "oh I am not worthy master!", or that we are reading the RUSSIANS, we might consider being careful because life has a way of leveling ego.
Wayne
In one of Richard Brautigan's novels there is a ch... (show quote)


OK. Arrogance is bad, humility is good. What's new under the sun?

Reply
Check out Wedding Photography section of our forum.
Apr 14, 2015 09:30:27   #
JRSal Loc: Wausau, WI
 
I cannot agree more with Wayne. While in college, I took a photo course. The "professor" (not a PhD) only gave out two subjects per week and a 24 exp. roll of slide film. We had to turn the exposed film into a local shop for processing and then the prof got it before we saw our work, so we had no opportunity to pull out our poor shots. The prof then made a point of putting the worst shots up on a screen before the class and humiliated us. When I completed this class I put my camera on a shelf and didn't touch it for close to ten years. Fortunately I overcame this and started shooting again.

People do not realize how hurtful they can be and on the internet it is so easy to do this since you do not see the hurt in the eyes of the receiver of the attack.

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 09:50:05   #
waykee7 Loc: Cortez, Colorado
 
Chuck_893 wrote:
Very well reasoned and written essay, Wayne. I read it through twice. For me, the key is above. I see it all the time on the 'hog, it's happened to me (and I'm not a beginner), and I think it's kind'a the internet disease. I'm not sure why it is. It's similar to the behavior of an awful lot of drivers, protected and anonymous in the steel cocoon. It's behavior many would not exhibit in line at the grocery (or maybe they would). I guess that in the last analysis it's just a part of modern life to be put up with. :hunf: Good essay. Illegitimi non carborundum. :D
Very well reasoned and written essay, Wayne. I rea... (show quote)


I have heard it argued the decline in manners in our discourse really starts with talk radio. That may be right.

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 09:53:12   #
waykee7 Loc: Cortez, Colorado
 
jcboy3 wrote:
The only Brautigan novel I know of where he mentions "reading the Russians" is "A Confederate General From Big Sur". The two places where this is mentioned are

“He was reading the Russians with that certain heavy tone people put in their voices when they say, “I’m reading the Russians.””

and

“Sure there’s God-damn shelter down here. What do you think I’m living in, a burrow? That business in Oakland was something else. A man needs the proper atmosphere to read the Russians.”

To which of Brautigan's novels are you referring?
The only Brautigan novel I know of where he mentio... (show quote)


I'm laughing because I read it >40 years ago! I may not remember the quote exactly!

Reply
Apr 14, 2015 10:10:43   #
Ranjan Loc: Currently Cyber-Nation!
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
R

OK. Arrogance is bad, humility is good. What's new under the sun?


The flowers that spring afresh, every spring!
The same flower, and yet not quite the same!
Kind of makes one hopeful...! ;-)

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 4 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Check out Photo Critique Section section of our forum.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.