waykee7 Loc: Cortez, Colorado

In one of Richard Brautigan's novels there is a character who goes to parties, saddles up to people, and pronounces solemnly "I'm reading the RUSSIANS." And that's all he says.

I have a friend who tells people at a local photography club that "I only shoot film." I knew someone else who would say "I don't believe in post processing." I have a friend, who is a fine photographer, who tells me "Really, I only shoot 4x5 but I want to move to 8x10". Another tells me that you'll never equal a silver gelatin print, which is a hugely sweeping commentary. Someone else on the forum asked disparagingly of another, "what are you trying to be, Ansel Adams?"

I've know two people who knew Adams, and they both loved him, not as a photographer, though certainly they liked his work, but they loved him as a PERSON. One of them, a former park superintendent at Yosemite, said he was one of the most intelligent, and most pensive person he'd ever known. He was also a humble man.

So my Nikon D90 that I shot for 5 years seemed to overexpose about 1/3 to 1/2 f-stop. I typically adjusted that in post processing. If you don't believe in post processing, does making that adjustment "in camera" make you a better photographer? Does it make you a better person?

Or if I employ an old film trick of underexposing by 1/2 to 1 full f-stop in increase saturation of a shot I'm making with my digital camera, is this cheating?

Is a pinhole camera the only pure form of photography? Is pureness the goal?

Did Ansel Adams have a monopoly on pre-visualization? That is, when he died, did pre-visualization stop? If I shoot "in camera" in color but I use SilverEfex2 to get to what I wanted the photograph to look like in b&w when I took the shot, am I cheating? Did Ansel cheat when he burned and dodged, or used filters while shooting or did he cheat by printing on anything other than #2 paper? He thought Moonrise over Hernandez was a dud when he first printed it. . . should he have stopped there? Or was his finesse in printing it really the creation of a fake?

And what about accidents. Several years ago I was hiking in Utah. A yellow-orange dragonfly landed on a bush. It was backlit, and the colors were especially beautiful. I shot at 300mm and when I looked at the shot in the camera, it was beautiful. I told my daughter, "THAT was the shot of the trip." When we got it home and put it on the monitor, we were surprised and pleased to see that the dragonfly had its lower jaw piece dropped, and it looks all the world like he's smiling. So that was an accident, I didn't realize it at the time, so should I not take credit for the photograph?

Here's what I think for what it's worth (probably not much). Photography for me is always a lesson in humility. I like about 10% of my photographs, sometimes a little more, sometimes less. Even after taking a couple hundred thousand photographs, I cannot predict how the abstraction will look that occurs when one takes a 3-dimensional scene and reduces it to 2-dimensions with absolute certainty. All photography, like all art, is an abstraction. I continually make mistakes, even though I'm careful. Last week in a remote area I will likely never visit again, I accidentally turned a dial to "auto-ISO" and shot an incredible sunset in the Land of Standing Rocks at ISO 700. I often muff focus. I once absent-mindedly reformatted a memory card before I downloaded the photos. I get a lot of portraits with people's eyes closed. I catch dorky expressions. I get fooled by backlighting STILL. I have shots ruined by camera movement. I don't have a camera with me when a once-in-a-lifetime shot presents itself. After 44 years of pursuing this art form (among others) I am reminded that someone in the right place and the right time with little interest in photography can make with luck a masterpiece photograph that will be more stunning, more profound, and capture more of the beauty of the natural world or the drama of the human condition than any photograph I have, or will ever, make. Vivian Maier's extraordinary work, which will outlast any single individual's arrogance, was produced by an intensely shy and presumably modest, diminutive woman of immense talent. I am appalled at the lack of manners towards beginners by some on the forum. Geez, why be cruel and petty to someone unknown to you? Does that make one feel big and important or all-knowing? It is the nature of the medium to remind us of humbleness, and if it doesn't do that, then it says a lot about one's own pathology and shallowness. The next time we have our nose in the air making some pronouncement that has the implicit message that our approach to photography makes us better than everyone else, or our work is 100% good, and that we have a monopoly on art that the novice would do well to fall on their knees and wail "oh I am not worthy master!", or that we are reading the RUSSIANS, we might consider being careful because life has a way of leveling ego.
Wayne

Bob Yankle Loc: Burlington, NC

You're a man after my own heart Wayne. But you see things better .....

10MPlayer Loc: California

You make a lot of good points, Wayne. Like you, I've tried a lot of different ways to express myself. Writing, saxophone, clarinet, piano, guitar, photography, swimming, golf to name some of them. In every single one of them I've found there will always be someone with more skill, more dedication, more strength, quickness, artistry. It doesn't stop me from trying. Especially in photography, I find I can make an image that is as beautiful as anything I've seen in a magazine. Not every time, not even often. But if I'm paying attention and taking my time and making sure I've got the right settings and the right composition, I can make beautiful photographs. I can't say that about swimming or golf. No matter how hard I tried, I knew at a young age I'd never be an Olympic swimmer. Those people are a "breed apart." They have physical gifts you can't get by swimming more laps or spending more time in the weight room.

As far as the pretentious guys reading the RUSSIANS or listening to experimental jazz and pretending to understand it...oh well, yawn. I don't have time for them.

MarkD Loc: NYC

It constantly amazes me how different people are. I try to accept people as they are. Some are harder to accept than others. I associate with those I like. I try to stay away from those I don't like, and I try to not let them bother me. Letting them bother or upset me serves no useful purpose. It won't change them, and it doesn't make me feel better.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

I've been called the dumbest guy on the Hog, at least twice!!
It can't get worse than THAT!
The worst I can do is TIE for first..., in LAST!!! :lol: :lol:
SS

Whuff Loc: Marshalltown, Iowa

You've posed a lot of basically rhetorical questions here Wayne. Any one of them has caused many a page full of debate here and will again. I think you and I would be on the same side of the debate on most of them. Thanks for posting - lots to ponder.

Walt

Haydon

Sorry Wayne I'm not sure if you're being philosophical or ranting.

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

You've kept count?

I stopped counting after the first year!

spdmn54 Loc: Avon Lake, Ohio

All I can say Wayne is well said, :thumbup:

Larrymc Loc: Mississippi

I fully agree :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

The world is actually a better place because we have a...holes in it who say "Im reading the Russians". He either has a great sense of humour in which case I would welcome him to the party or he is totally full of shite which is no reason to shun him. He can provide the entertainment for the evening as you verbally dismember him slowly and painfully much to the amusement of your friends. I love to be in the vicinity of such people but have to admit the Good Lord has blessed me with a cruel streak that makes Genghis Khan look positively benign.

berchman Loc: South Central PA

You are conflating two issues in your statement. One issue has to do with the (arrogant) claim that one's approach to photography is superior to all others. The other issue is what you call "lack of manners to beginners."

*I* do not pose a question to a forum until I have done everything in my power to research it on the internet. I also read the manual. I do not think it unjustified to respond with impatience to someone who is too damned lazy or stupid to have done some preliminary work on their own before expecting perfect strangers to waste time and energy doing for them what they should have done for themselves.

The only reason I have not been "rude" to such people is that I refrain from responding to them because then I would experience recriminations from you and others of your mindset.

Chuck_893 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA

Very well reasoned and written essay, Wayne. I read it through twice. For me, the key is above. I see it all the time on the 'hog, it's happened to me (and I'm not a beginner), and I think it's kind'a the internet disease. I'm not sure why it is. It's similar to the behavior of an awful lot of drivers, protected and anonymous in the steel cocoon. It's behavior many would not exhibit in line at the grocery (or maybe they would). I guess that in the last analysis it's just a part of modern life to be put up with. :hunf: Good essay. Illegitimi non carborundum. :D

Chuck_893 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA

I don't disagree, but I do consider that some folks may have difficulty reading and understanding the manual. Like you, I always read the manual, carry it with me if they print it out (any more they too often don't), research on the internet, but everyone is different. Everyone learns differently. For some, trying to read and understand the manual may be agony, so maybe they come here. You will never get any recriminations from me; I just wonder sometimes why some folks respond (sometimes very) rudely to what (I guess) sounds to them like a stupid question. :) We used to say there were no stupid questions. I know there are trolls who deliberately set out to stir the pot, but most of the time it seems to me that the "stupid question" is asked legitimately. Neither you nor I have any notion of the asker's challenges, personality, or problems (and we all know, or should, that expressing oneself accurately in writing is difficult at best); I don't think it should be hard to respond politely, at least, or skip it and move on, as you said you already do. :thumbup:

REJ Loc: Ontario Canada

:thumbup: :thumbup: REJ.