dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

And one of those later classes could start the focus on film, since those continuing are more likely to actually need that knowledge.

dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

"there are times when an iterative process with instant feedback helps learning"

Yes, like in a level I course.

amehta Loc: Boston

And there are times when the digital camera will be included in the assignment in the level I course.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Pics, though it may be a little more expensive, you may want to check the bookstore, it may stock everything you need, and in the brands they prefer for you to use. As you move into digital, you may find that both their monitors and printers are calibrated ONLY to the brands they sell, which may be something like Arista, a company the packages and sells paper supplies to colleges and schools.
I too feel that film is important, but not because of any kind of zen experience with paying your dues or it's the only way you can self discipline yourself and slow down, but it's the only way to learn to do good black and white and how to compose it. And I also don't mean just the fact that you have shot it, but you will be taught the mechanics of black and white contrast and how to apply it to composition, not to mention learning composition itself. That's what the critiques are for that are so important. And after looking at shot after shot after shot of hand picked images by the instructor, you will start to see how itcall goes together and what actually constitutes a good image. Just like you, I have only recently started to formally learn to see the light(and shadows) and I'm 63. :-)
SS

jvo Loc: left coast of the east coast

as a photographer who uses only film, i would recommend the class and film...

before i say why, let me say were i starting out today i very likely get into digital photography and never do anything else. dg photography and equipment is absolutely superb. you can take many more GOOD photographs, more quickly, and of diverse types, (macro, zoom, color, bw, special toning, etc.) - quickly and easily.

i'd recommend a film class to "slow your photography down" - you become more considerate with film. also not "seeing" the resultant image causes you to look closer at the subject, take more time with it - always a good thing. you can slow down with digital - you just don't... you aren't as considerate and thus spend a lot of time at the computer. you then spend a lot of time culling good from bad, (mostly bad), and never learn to be more judicious when clicking the shutter!

the darkroom is fun - the magic of putting ad blob of plastic in a tank and at the end you get these negatives of what you originally saw, and are surprised and sometimes let down! and elated that through this alchemy of processing you magic. somehow you always get a good picture and you did it! then you print and watch the image "transform" and come up in this chemical bath - the magic.

there's more... what it teaches you in terms of equipment use, importance of working the subject, etc. but you can do this if you are disciplined with a digital camera... i guess i'm not.

i'm a luddite who loves film and the process, try it at the least it will expand your horizons and give you an understanding most photographers don't have today...

jvo

p.s. the difference between a "good" photograph and a "great" photograph is TIME - time with the subject time improving your craft, time refining your art.

jgitomer Loc: Skippack Pennsylvania

Something I think has been overlooked is that this is a level I course being taught in a community college.

Given that environment the course should be directed to the students fresh out of high school who have a lot of experience in cellphone snapshots and short attention spans and have grown up expecting instant gratification. None of which are desirable traits in a photographer.

I think the course is intended to make the students -- As the saying goes -- "Slow down and smell the roses".

Then again, maybe someone has to justify the existence of, not one, but two darkrooms ;-)

Jerry

dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

But there has to be a way of doing that which does not involve having them purchase expensive equipment they will never use again.

amehta Loc: Boston

There are apparently loaners available.

Last weekend a friend asked what he should do with his Pentax film camera, I told him to donate it to a school or college art department. I have one or two I should do the same with. That solves the problem of "expensive" equipment.

A Nikon N90s is available at KEH for about $100. If the students posted on Craigslist looking for old film cameras, I'm sure they would get offers for some for under $50. They could even post here in the Buy/Sell section.

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

Expensive? Most 35mm manual film cameras cost $100-$200 with a lens. I'm currently looking at 4x5 monorail cameras and the average price is $300. As far as paper RC paper is really cheap. Film isn't that expensive either. Last semester I spent $300 just in oil paint.

Also, what about textbooks?

anotherview Loc: California

Another questionable assumption supposedly arising from the doing of film photography as more of a discipline than that of digital photography: Film somehow demands more thinking than digital before doing an exposure.

This digital cameraman puts adequate thought into the process of deciding an exposure. Than he spends plenty of time as necessary during the post-processing (i.e., development) of a photograph in Photoshop.

Further, if I have the quote correct, the photographer Minor White said learning photography takes ten years. My personal experience doing digital bears out this observation. He meant film, but digital still requires striving for all the skills inherent in the craft of photography.

amehta Loc: Boston

I come back to using film as a way to change habits. It seems very reasonable to do that.

anotherview Loc: California

Your comment nicely states the motivation pushing me to try film again. One thing holds me back: No darkroom and no darkroom skills, which leaves me at the mercy of lab staff.

I used to send my film to a lab for development, with unsatisfactory results because another put his interpretation on my photograph. The same thing likely would happen now.

Doing digital photography allows me complete control from beginning to end with each of my photographs. And I find myself pleased with the results of my efforts, even as I strive to improve my skills.

planepics Loc: St. Louis burbs, but originally Chicago burbs

Someone mentioned (or I read somewhere) that in B/W film photography that you expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights. I hope I go that right. It kind of sounds like a manual version of HDR photography. Would that be accurate? Also I found out that I'm eligible for B&H's student discount, but I haven't signed up yet. That's another strike against my local camera store. Even with the discount that my local gives B&H is $2.48 cheaper per roll If I paid full price at B&H for Ilford HP5+ 135-24 film (one of several choices that were given to us on the syllabus). If money was of no concern to me whatsoever, I would probably support my local shop, but.... My second class is in about an hour and a half from now.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

At its simplest with B&W film, for less contrast, you overexpose and underdevelop (pulling). For more contrast, you underexpose and overdevelop (pushing). Pushing is generally done in low light, to increase ISO. Pulling is good for harsh sunlight and deep shadows. Ansel Adams' zone system is an elaborate version of that.

amehta Loc: Boston

I don't think that would be a manual version of HDR. I think it's closer to ETTR (ETTR search, Trying to understand ETTR)