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Photograph or Image(A hopefull in-depth discussion)
Jan 24, 2014 12:26:51 #
billwassmann wrote:
Potayto, potahto. I agree largely with Doyle Thomas but a painting or drawing is also an image. I'm more interested in how skillful it is.
Words have meaning. Even "Potato," in its pronunciation, conveys not only the meaning of a starchy tuber, but where the speaker was born and his socioeconomic / educational station in life.
"Y'all not from 'round here, air yuh?"
Jan 24, 2014 12:45:22 #
Personally, photographs, regardless of medium are like potatoes: I like them only if they are prepared, cooked in a way I can appreciated them.
Uncooked a potato can even be poisonous if you eat the skin (when it turns green), same for a photograph, an unprocessed picture is unpalatable.
Therefore, in my opinion, a photograph is also and not limited to the end of a process that primarily uses light for the capture and uses light to be displayed.
A major difference in media thought...
NOTE: I did not take this picture.
Uncooked a potato can even be poisonous if you eat the skin (when it turns green), same for a photograph, an unprocessed picture is unpalatable.
Therefore, in my opinion, a photograph is also and not limited to the end of a process that primarily uses light for the capture and uses light to be displayed.
A major difference in media thought...
NOTE: I did not take this picture.
A photo on a wall by night
The same photo on a screen in a room with no light...
Jan 24, 2014 12:54:49 #
Rongnongno wrote:
You are right but it defeats the 'printed' idea. Going from there, a digital representation on a screen is also a photograph, don't you think?
a slide or a film negative is a physical object and has the status of artifact
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Jan 24, 2014 12:59:21 #
Meaning that a photograph, an image or any art that involves vision must use some light.
A sculpture does not need light, even if seeing it can add pleasure to touching it.
Same goes for potatoes, when eating them vision is a big part but then enters the texture inside the mouth as well as the smell first then the taste...
Ever smelled some french cheese? Disgusting, repulsive, many adjectives can be used but if you dare placing that filthy refuse of a processed milk in your mouth, you can have an incredible taste that belies all other first impressions. (Add specific red wine - not white - and you have an explosion in your mouth)
Here too I have an image... Go onto areas that are polluted, not necessarily by man, and while into a dismal environment you can come out with incredible photographs that only a connoisseur can recognize and appreciate.
If you have followed me so far, I created pictures of situations in your mind that could 'see' but not touch. The imagery used is for illustration only as it is intangible when a photograph, even on a screen can be touched as what you touch is only a physical support.
There lies the difference in my opinion, the need for a VISIBLE support that exists for a photograph. This need does not exist for images or pictures as they can exist in our mind, even if we use the expression 'photographic memory' that relates to the ability of remembering places and details that is superior to that average person.
A sculpture does not need light, even if seeing it can add pleasure to touching it.
Same goes for potatoes, when eating them vision is a big part but then enters the texture inside the mouth as well as the smell first then the taste...
Ever smelled some french cheese? Disgusting, repulsive, many adjectives can be used but if you dare placing that filthy refuse of a processed milk in your mouth, you can have an incredible taste that belies all other first impressions. (Add specific red wine - not white - and you have an explosion in your mouth)
Here too I have an image... Go onto areas that are polluted, not necessarily by man, and while into a dismal environment you can come out with incredible photographs that only a connoisseur can recognize and appreciate.
If you have followed me so far, I created pictures of situations in your mind that could 'see' but not touch. The imagery used is for illustration only as it is intangible when a photograph, even on a screen can be touched as what you touch is only a physical support.
There lies the difference in my opinion, the need for a VISIBLE support that exists for a photograph. This need does not exist for images or pictures as they can exist in our mind, even if we use the expression 'photographic memory' that relates to the ability of remembering places and details that is superior to that average person.
Jan 24, 2014 13:09:35 #
Doyle Thomas wrote:
I did not deny that...a slide or a film negative is a physical object and has the status of artifact
I need to clarify. What I was trying to introduce was that the idea of projection/printing also applied to digital display w/o a slide.
I am thinking of digital display frames that now reside in folks desks.
Jan 24, 2014 13:32:14 #
"I am thinking of digital display frames that now reside in folks desks"
well now, that's a little bit gray lol, I stand on my original assertion that a Photograph does not exist until it leaves the virtual world. until it is printed an image remains subject to manipulation.
well now, that's a little bit gray lol, I stand on my original assertion that a Photograph does not exist until it leaves the virtual world. until it is printed an image remains subject to manipulation.
Jan 24, 2014 13:36:28 #
I think that the storage media makes no difference. Early photos or daguerreotype images were recorded on a plate with a silver coating. Modern film is made of plastic with a light sensitive silver coating. Digital "photos" use a different method of storage, but the process - converting incoming light through a lens or pinhole onto a storage media - thereby creating a latent image is the same. Only the storage process is different. That stored image may then be printed, projected, or viewed on a screen.
So in my humble opinion - Yes - Its a photograph.
So in my humble opinion - Yes - Its a photograph.
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Jan 24, 2014 13:40:34 #
its true that a Photograph can be manipulated (ie. retouched)but this must be done by the hand, in the digital domain the eye and the Mind exist. you can see and think but you can not touch, it is the hand that is missing.
Jan 24, 2014 14:39:21 #
DanRobinson wrote:
Words have meaning. Even "Potato," in its pronunciation, conveys not only the meaning of a starchy tuber, but where the speaker was born and his socioeconomic / educational station in life.
"Y'all not from 'round here, air yuh?"
"Y'all not from 'round here, air yuh?"
I don't know where your "here" is, but I'm in northeastern NJ. I wrote it that way to emphasize the differences in pronunciation.
Jan 24, 2014 14:44:09 #
What is the difference between an album and a digital display that can change the photographs or graphics presented by it's screen?
Can you not touch the screen? Any screen? You cannot touch a slide projection so by your definition the slide is not a photograph until printed, even if it is an artifact.
If for you printing on so important that it suppress the notion of photograph when not on paper or cardboard? How about other media used like plastic? Ceramic? Even (pushing it here) tee-shirt?
The idea of specific physical support puzzles me.
What does not and where I somewhat rejoin you is that projection from a slide or printing from a silver negative offers a greater depth and quality* that screen viewing or prints made from a digital camera do not. An appreciation many will dispute. Is that difference enough? Not to me.
* one of the reason why I push toward shooting in RAW and processing in higher bit depth when not in a wider color space.
Can you not touch the screen? Any screen? You cannot touch a slide projection so by your definition the slide is not a photograph until printed, even if it is an artifact.
If for you printing on so important that it suppress the notion of photograph when not on paper or cardboard? How about other media used like plastic? Ceramic? Even (pushing it here) tee-shirt?
The idea of specific physical support puzzles me.
What does not and where I somewhat rejoin you is that projection from a slide or printing from a silver negative offers a greater depth and quality* that screen viewing or prints made from a digital camera do not. An appreciation many will dispute. Is that difference enough? Not to me.
* one of the reason why I push toward shooting in RAW and processing in higher bit depth when not in a wider color space.
Jan 24, 2014 14:57:01 #
Hard to answer, as shown above
I would say it has to be a pattern created by light on a surface.
Beyond that, does it have to be:
Intentionally created?
capable of being preserved?
A representation of something?
Static (or one of a series like a video)?
If you play a flashlight on a wall, is that a photograph?
I would say it has to be a pattern created by light on a surface.
Beyond that, does it have to be:
Intentionally created?
capable of being preserved?
A representation of something?
Static (or one of a series like a video)?
If you play a flashlight on a wall, is that a photograph?
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Jan 24, 2014 15:01:55 #
Those who think it isn't a photo until printed are partly right. Until it is "printed" whether on paper, metal, plastic,screen, whatever,it is only impulses on a sensor. In that no one can see those it isn't a photograph. It is a latent image, same as film.
Jan 24, 2014 15:36:38 #
Wikipedia:
An image (from Latin: imago) is an artifact that depicts or records visual perception, for example a two-dimensional picture, that has a similar appearance to some subject usually a physical object or a person, thus providing a depiction of it.
A photograph or photo is an image created by light falling on a light-sensitive surface, usually photographic film or an electronic image such as a CCD or a CMOS chip. The word "photograph" was coined in 1839 by Sir John Herschel and is based on the Greek φῶς (phos), meaning "light", and γραφή (graphê), meaning "drawing, writing", together meaning "drawing with light".
I take "artifact" to mean a digital artifact as well, and it seems that both a photograph and an image are the permanent record of light falling on a sensitive surface. Therefore, they are the same thing.
What it means to YOU is what makes the difference.
An image (from Latin: imago) is an artifact that depicts or records visual perception, for example a two-dimensional picture, that has a similar appearance to some subject usually a physical object or a person, thus providing a depiction of it.
A photograph or photo is an image created by light falling on a light-sensitive surface, usually photographic film or an electronic image such as a CCD or a CMOS chip. The word "photograph" was coined in 1839 by Sir John Herschel and is based on the Greek φῶς (phos), meaning "light", and γραφή (graphê), meaning "drawing, writing", together meaning "drawing with light".
I take "artifact" to mean a digital artifact as well, and it seems that both a photograph and an image are the permanent record of light falling on a sensitive surface. Therefore, they are the same thing.
What it means to YOU is what makes the difference.
Jan 24, 2014 15:42:52 #
billwassmann wrote:
Going by this definition a digital file will never be a photograph because it always lies in a latent stage as a process always takes place to make it visible on a screen. Yet on a screen it is a photograph.Those who think it isn't a photo until printed are partly right. Until it is "printed" whether on paper, metal, plastic,screen, whatever,it is only impulses on a sensor. In that no one can see those it isn't a photograph. It is a latent image, same as film.
Jan 24, 2014 15:57:01 #
billwassmann wrote:
I don't know where your "here" is, but I'm in northeastern NJ. I wrote it that way to emphasize the differences in pronunciation.
As did I
:-)
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