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Debunking the “Ancient Alien” concept
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Feb 9, 2024 20:02:46   #
Dean37 Loc: Fresno, CA
 
I don't know whether or not to believe or not believe in Extra Terrestrial beings. I do know that to close your mind to anything that can't be proved or disproved is not a logical thing to do.

Reasonable thought says that there are billions maybe trillions maybe more by a factor of millions of stars many of which have planets and the odds of only one planet having life as we know it is not a reasonable thought. No way to prove or disprove that.

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Feb 9, 2024 20:15:08   #
srg
 
neillaubenthal wrote:
I can understand pyramids being built by people…and things like the Easter island heads and Stonehenge. However…there are those drawings in the dessert…some of which are a mile or so long…and since the ancients couldn’t fly how could they have laid them out so precisely? And why…since they can only be seen from the air? And some of the, have arrows pointing tens to hundreds of miles away very precisely.

And…although we have no proof either way…with the size of the universe and assuming life evolved…the likelihood that in the billions of galaxies with billions of stars it only happened once is laughably small. Entire civilizations could have evolved, explored, and died in a supernova before our sun was even born.

One can’t prove it either way…but the likelihood of intelligent life either before sun existed or now is essentially 100%. Now whether one is close enough to see their radio emissions or not or travel here or not…but just as the Egyptians would be mystified by smart phones and movies…humans today would be equally mystified by tech that a race 25,000 years more advanced might have. They would/could look at faster than light travel and wormhole transits and teleportation as everyday things like we consider smartphones and and MILC.
I can understand pyramids being built by people…an... (show quote)



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Feb 9, 2024 23:54:43   #
twb930s Loc: Aldie, Virginia
 
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of years ago were able to move stones weighing several tons long distances and raise them up hills and other structures using only logs and hemp ropes, I will still question how it was done and who did it. Today's engineers cannot explain how it was done - how they built walls and buildings so exact with extremely large and heavy stones that there are no gaps. There are so many questions that cannot be answered. Instead of blindly refusing to entertain the ancient aliens theory, spend some time trying to answer the how question that all of today's engineers and scientists cannot answer. If you have ever visited some of these sites, you cannot leave without wondering how it was built or who built it. And how the structures have lasted so long without significant deterioration. Yes, we can build these structures today, but how did they do it thousands of years ago without any modern tools or equipment?

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Feb 10, 2024 00:05:32   #
srg
 
twb930s wrote:
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of years ago were able to move stones weighing several tons long distances and raise them up hills and other structures using only logs and hemp ropes, I will still question how it was done and who did it. Today's engineers cannot explain how it was done - how they built walls and buildings so exact with extremely large and heavy stones that there are no gaps. There are so many questions that cannot be answered. Instead of blindly refusing to entertain the ancient aliens theory, spend some time trying to answer the how question that all of today's engineers and scientists cannot answer. If you have ever visited some of these sites, you cannot leave without wondering how it was built or who built it. And how the structures have lasted so long without significant deterioration. Yes, we can build these structures today, but how did they do it thousands of years ago without any modern tools or equipment?
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of... (show quote)



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Feb 10, 2024 01:07:55   #
ken_stern Loc: Yorba Linda, Ca
 
twb930s wrote:
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of years ago were able to move stones weighing several tons long distances and raise them up hills and other structures using only logs and hemp ropes, I will still question how it was done and who did it. Today's engineers cannot explain how it was done - how they built walls and buildings so exact with extremely large and heavy stones that there are no gaps. There are so many questions that cannot be answered. Instead of blindly refusing to entertain the ancient aliens theory, spend some time trying to answer the how question that all of today's engineers and scientists cannot answer. If you have ever visited some of these sites, you cannot leave without wondering how it was built or who built it. And how the structures have lasted so long without significant deterioration. Yes, we can build these structures today, but how did they do it thousands of years ago without any modern tools or equipment?
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of... (show quote)


I, of course, can't tell you how the Egyptians went about building their Pyramids at Giza other than they did --- You see they had been building similar structures at Saggare (about 15 miles south of Giza) for at least 150 years before building the Great Giza Pyramid -- And of course they had a few failures a very human learning process such as the Bent Pyramid -- Bottom line is Humans are very smart people

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Feb 10, 2024 06:51:27   #
rwww80a Loc: Hampton, NH
 
If you need some alien short stories, I've got about 40 years of "Analog Magazine". SciFi, science fiction and science fact. One of the covers from the 50s shows a creature amazingly like Chewbaca. Must have been recycled as part of Lucas' stories.

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Feb 10, 2024 10:58:59   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
Given the size of the universe it would be absolutely incredible if Earth was the only place where intelligent life exists. The best argument that intelligent life does exist beyond Earth is that they haven't attempted to contact us.

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Feb 10, 2024 11:26:09   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Given the size of the universe it would be absolutely incredible if Earth was the only place where intelligent life exists. The best argument that intelligent life does exist beyond Earth is that they haven't attempted to contact us.


Given the incredible distances involved in space, even advanced civilizations might be too far from us be able to travel to us or even try to communicate with us. Sci Fi had to invent concepts like warp drive to get around that, but that may not be possible.

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Feb 10, 2024 11:41:20   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
Given the incredible distances involved in space, even advanced civilizations might be too far from us be able to travel to us or even try to communicate with us. Sci Fi had to invent concepts like warp drive to get around that, but that may not be possible.


The best argument that intelligent life exists is they haven't tried to contact us (intelligent???) is intended as a joke.

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Feb 10, 2024 11:45:08   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
The best argument that intelligent life exists is they haven't tried to contact us (intelligent???) is intended as a joke.


I realized that, but I think my comment is still relevant to the discussion.

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Feb 10, 2024 12:49:47   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
I realized that, but I think my comment is still relevant to the discussion.


Can't argue with that. The expanding universe is estimated to be 90+ billion years wide but we can only "see" about 14 billion of those for technical reasons that defy logic. So only God knows what's really out there.

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Feb 10, 2024 18:21:27   #
Wyantry Loc: SW Colorado
 
twb930s wrote:
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of years ago were able to move stones weighing several tons long distances and raise them up hills and other structures using only logs and hemp ropes, I will still question how it was done and who did it. Today's engineers cannot explain how it was done - how they built walls and buildings so exact with extremely large and heavy stones that there are no gaps. There are so many questions that cannot be answered. Instead of blindly refusing to entertain the ancient aliens theory, spend some time trying to answer the how question that all of today's engineers and scientists cannot answer. If you have ever visited some of these sites, you cannot leave without wondering how it was built or who built it. And how the structures have lasted so long without significant deterioration. Yes, we can build these structures today, but how did they do it thousands of years ago without any modern tools or equipment?
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of... (show quote)


Archeologists have ALREADY explained how the Incas formed and moved stone blocks and created the stonework.

https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/this-is-how-they-built-the-inca-stone-walls#
~~~~~~~~~~~

”The stones were moved by teams of men pulling with ropes, as shown in the drawings of chronicler Felipe Guaman Poma de Ayala.

Cieza De Leon also writes ‘4000 of them quarried and cut the stones; 6000 hauled them with great cables of leather and hemp.’
Similar ropes used on Incan suspension bridges were made with ichu grass. Small ropes of these materials have been shown to support a load of 4000lbs, and larger ropes may have been able to hold up to 50,000lbs.

The stones were rolled to their positions using wooden beams on earth ramps [chullpa]. An unfinished chullpa in Sillustani still has a ramp in place.
Father Cobo saw Incan builders using a similar ramp during the construction of the Cusco Cathedral.”


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_architecture#Masonry_and_construction_methods
~~~~~~~~~~~~

An analysis and explanation of the processes is: INCA QUARRYING AND STONECUTTING, by Jean-Pierre Protzen. Mr. Protzen details the evidences of how the stonework was, in all probability, created.

Several questions require answers, and are identified by Protzen.

1. Quarrying: ”What kind of stone did the Inca select; how, and with what devices, was stone extracted from bedrock?”

2. Cutting and dressing: “How, and with what tools, were these operations performed, and where?”

3. Fitting and laying: “With what techniques and devices did the Inca achieve the proverbial fit between the stones ?”

4. Handling and Transportation: “How, and with what devices, did the Inca transport and lift the building stones?”

https://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu/anthpubs/ucb/text/nap021-006.pdf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another article detailing the work of Protzen is in Scientific American and offers some details:

”. . . as J. Protzen relates in the subject article, Inca stonemasonry was surprisingly unsophisticated and yet efficient, although some mysteries remain.

“Protzen has spent many months in Inca country experimenting with different methods of shaping and fitting the same kinds of stones used by the Incas. He found that quarrying and dressing the stones were not problems at all using the stone hammers found in abundance in the area. Even the precision-fitting of stones was a relatively simple matter. The concave depressions into which new stones were fit were pounded out by trial and error until a snug fit was achieved. Protzen's first-hand experience is impressive and convincing. Certainly he required no radical solutions.

“The problems that Protzen was not able to solve to his satisfaction involved the transportation and handling of the large stones. The fitting process necessitated the repeated lowering and raising of the stone being fitted, with trial-and-error pounding in between. He does not know just how 100-ton stones were manipulated during this stage. To transport the stones from the quarries, some as far as 35 kilometers distant, the Incas built special access roads and ramps. Many of the stones were dragged over gravel-covered roads, as evidenced by their polished surfaces. The largest stone at Ollantaytambo weighs about 140,000 kilograms. It could have been pulled up a ramp with a force of about 120,000 kilograms. Such a feat would have required some 2,400 men. Getting the men was no problem, but where did they all stand? The ramps were only 8 meters wide at most. A minor problem perhaps, but still unsolved. Further, the stones used at Saqsaywaman were fine-dressed at the Rumiqolqa quarry and show no signs of dragging. Protzen does not know how they were transported 35 kilometers.

“An intriguing observation by Protzen is that the cutting marks on some of the stone blocks are very similar to those found on the pyramidion of the unfinished obelisk from Aswan in Egypt. Is this a case of anomalous diffusion of Old World technology or simply independent invention?
(Protzen, Jean-Pierre; "Inca Stonemasonry," Scientific American, 254:94, February 1986.)”


https://www.science-frontiers.com/sf044/sf044p01.htm

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Feb 10, 2024 20:21:23   #
Dean37 Loc: Fresno, CA
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Can't argue with that. The expanding universe is estimated to be 90+ billion years wide but we can only "see" about 14 billion of those for technical reasons that defy logic. So only God knows what's really out there.


What is beyond 90+ billion years wide? How do we know there is an end and if there is an end there must be something beyond the end. There is no way the human mind can comprehend the magnitude of the Universe. Since none of us can ever get to the end, why not let's just restrict ourselves to studying what we can identify as existing.

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Feb 10, 2024 22:36:18   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
I'm certainly not an expert in this area but those that are, describe an expansion period where space expanded at a much higher rate than the universe. Space being defined as a place where matter can exist. It can expand faster than the speed of light because it is not matter. The projected expansion of space is what is expected to be 90 billion light years wide. Out observations of the matter in space has been measured at about 14 billion light years. Anything in between will forever be unknown to us. Science progresses when we attempt to discover the unknown. Frank Zappa postulated that if we stay within normal bounds, progress can not be made. Much of the nature of the subatomic world was first speculated to exist, then over time proven to exist, like nutrinos, quarks, and gravity waves.

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Feb 11, 2024 17:32:25   #
mtbear
 
I like watching those shows, they make me laugh.

"One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact."

Mark Twain

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