I don't know whether or not to believe or not believe in Extra Terrestrial beings. I do know that to close your mind to anything that can't be proved or disproved is not a logical thing to do.
Reasonable thought says that there are billions maybe trillions maybe more by a factor of millions of stars many of which have planets and the odds of only one planet having life as we know it is not a reasonable thought. No way to prove or disprove that.
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of years ago were able to move stones weighing several tons long distances and raise them up hills and other structures using only logs and hemp ropes, I will still question how it was done and who did it. Today's engineers cannot explain how it was done - how they built walls and buildings so exact with extremely large and heavy stones that there are no gaps. There are so many questions that cannot be answered. Instead of blindly refusing to entertain the ancient aliens theory, spend some time trying to answer the how question that all of today's engineers and scientists cannot answer. If you have ever visited some of these sites, you cannot leave without wondering how it was built or who built it. And how the structures have lasted so long without significant deterioration. Yes, we can build these structures today, but how did they do it thousands of years ago without any modern tools or equipment?
twb930s wrote:
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of years ago were able to move stones weighing several tons long distances and raise them up hills and other structures using only logs and hemp ropes, I will still question how it was done and who did it. Today's engineers cannot explain how it was done - how they built walls and buildings so exact with extremely large and heavy stones that there are no gaps. There are so many questions that cannot be answered. Instead of blindly refusing to entertain the ancient aliens theory, spend some time trying to answer the how question that all of today's engineers and scientists cannot answer. If you have ever visited some of these sites, you cannot leave without wondering how it was built or who built it. And how the structures have lasted so long without significant deterioration. Yes, we can build these structures today, but how did they do it thousands of years ago without any modern tools or equipment?
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of... (
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I, of course, can't tell you how the Egyptians went about building their Pyramids at Giza other than they did --- You see they had been building similar structures at Saggare (about 15 miles south of Giza) for at least 150 years before building the Great Giza Pyramid -- And of course they had a few failures a very human learning process such as the Bent Pyramid -- Bottom line is Humans are very smart people
If you need some alien short stories, I've got about 40 years of "Analog Magazine". SciFi, science fiction and science fact. One of the covers from the 50s shows a creature amazingly like Chewbaca. Must have been recycled as part of Lucas' stories.
Given the size of the universe it would be absolutely incredible if Earth was the only place where intelligent life exists. The best argument that intelligent life does exist beyond Earth is that they haven't attempted to contact us.
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Given the size of the universe it would be absolutely incredible if Earth was the only place where intelligent life exists. The best argument that intelligent life does exist beyond Earth is that they haven't attempted to contact us.
Given the incredible distances involved in space, even advanced civilizations might be too far from us be able to travel to us or even try to communicate with us. Sci Fi had to invent concepts like warp drive to get around that, but that may not be possible.
JohnSwanda wrote:
Given the incredible distances involved in space, even advanced civilizations might be too far from us be able to travel to us or even try to communicate with us. Sci Fi had to invent concepts like warp drive to get around that, but that may not be possible.
The best argument that intelligent life exists is they haven't tried to contact us (intelligent???) is intended as a joke.
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
The best argument that intelligent life exists is they haven't tried to contact us (intelligent???) is intended as a joke.
I realized that, but I think my comment is still relevant to the discussion.
JohnSwanda wrote:
I realized that, but I think my comment is still relevant to the discussion.
Can't argue with that. The expanding universe is estimated to be 90+ billion years wide but we can only "see" about 14 billion of those for technical reasons that defy logic. So only God knows what's really out there.
twb930s wrote:
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of years ago were able to move stones weighing several tons long distances and raise them up hills and other structures using only logs and hemp ropes, I will still question how it was done and who did it. Today's engineers cannot explain how it was done - how they built walls and buildings so exact with extremely large and heavy stones that there are no gaps. There are so many questions that cannot be answered. Instead of blindly refusing to entertain the ancient aliens theory, spend some time trying to answer the how question that all of today's engineers and scientists cannot answer. If you have ever visited some of these sites, you cannot leave without wondering how it was built or who built it. And how the structures have lasted so long without significant deterioration. Yes, we can build these structures today, but how did they do it thousands of years ago without any modern tools or equipment?
Until someone can tell me how workers thousands of... (
show quote)
Archeologists have ALREADY explained how the Incas formed and moved stone blocks and created the stonework.https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/this-is-how-they-built-the-inca-stone-walls#~~~~~~~~~~~
”The stones were moved by teams of men pulling with ropes, as shown in the drawings of chronicler Felipe Guaman Poma de Ayala.
Cieza De Leon also writes ‘4000 of them quarried and cut the stones; 6000 hauled them with great cables of leather and hemp.’
Similar ropes used on Incan suspension bridges were made with ichu grass. Small ropes of these materials have been shown to support a load of 4000lbs, and larger ropes may have been able to hold up to 50,000lbs.
The stones were rolled to their positions using wooden beams on earth ramps [chullpa]. An unfinished chullpa in Sillustani still has a ramp in place.
Father Cobo saw Incan builders using a similar ramp during the construction of the Cusco Cathedral.”https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_architecture#Masonry_and_construction_methods~~~~~~~~~~~~
An analysis and explanation of the processes is:
INCA QUARRYING AND STONECUTTING, by Jean-Pierre Protzen. Mr. Protzen details the evidences of how the stonework was, in all probability, created.
Several questions require answers, and are identified by Protzen.
1. Quarrying:
”What kind of stone did the Inca select; how, and with what devices, was stone extracted from bedrock?”2. Cutting and dressing:
“How, and with what tools, were these operations performed, and where?”3. Fitting and laying:
“With what techniques and devices did the Inca achieve the proverbial fit between the stones ?”4. Handling and Transportation:
“How, and with what devices, did the Inca transport and lift the building stones?”https://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu/anthpubs/ucb/text/nap021-006.pdf~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Another article detailing the work of Protzen is in
Scientific American and offers some details:
”. . . as J. Protzen relates in the subject article, Inca stonemasonry was surprisingly unsophisticated and yet efficient, although some mysteries remain.
“Protzen has spent many months in Inca country experimenting with different methods of shaping and fitting the same kinds of stones used by the Incas. He found that quarrying and dressing the stones were not problems at all using the stone hammers found in abundance in the area. Even the precision-fitting of stones was a relatively simple matter. The concave depressions into which new stones were fit were pounded out by trial and error until a snug fit was achieved. Protzen's first-hand experience is impressive and convincing. Certainly he required no radical solutions.
“The problems that Protzen was not able to solve to his satisfaction involved the transportation and handling of the large stones. The fitting process necessitated the repeated lowering and raising of the stone being fitted, with trial-and-error pounding in between. He does not know just how 100-ton stones were manipulated during this stage. To transport the stones from the quarries, some as far as 35 kilometers distant, the Incas built special access roads and ramps. Many of the stones were dragged over gravel-covered roads, as evidenced by their polished surfaces. The largest stone at Ollantaytambo weighs about 140,000 kilograms. It could have been pulled up a ramp with a force of about 120,000 kilograms. Such a feat would have required some 2,400 men. Getting the men was no problem, but where did they all stand? The ramps were only 8 meters wide at most. A minor problem perhaps, but still unsolved. Further, the stones used at Saqsaywaman were fine-dressed at the Rumiqolqa quarry and show no signs of dragging. Protzen does not know how they were transported 35 kilometers.
“An intriguing observation by Protzen is that the cutting marks on some of the stone blocks are very similar to those found on the pyramidion of the unfinished obelisk from Aswan in Egypt. Is this a case of anomalous diffusion of Old World technology or simply independent invention?
(Protzen, Jean-Pierre; "Inca Stonemasonry," Scientific American, 254:94, February 1986.)”https://www.science-frontiers.com/sf044/sf044p01.htm
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Can't argue with that. The expanding universe is estimated to be 90+ billion years wide but we can only "see" about 14 billion of those for technical reasons that defy logic. So only God knows what's really out there.
What is beyond 90+ billion years wide? How do we know there is an end and if there is an end there must be something beyond the end. There is no way the human mind can comprehend the magnitude of the Universe. Since none of us can ever get to the end, why not let's just restrict ourselves to studying what we can identify as existing.
I'm certainly not an expert in this area but those that are, describe an expansion period where space expanded at a much higher rate than the universe. Space being defined as a place where matter can exist. It can expand faster than the speed of light because it is not matter. The projected expansion of space is what is expected to be 90 billion light years wide. Out observations of the matter in space has been measured at about 14 billion light years. Anything in between will forever be unknown to us. Science progresses when we attempt to discover the unknown. Frank Zappa postulated that if we stay within normal bounds, progress can not be made. Much of the nature of the subatomic world was first speculated to exist, then over time proven to exist, like nutrinos, quarks, and gravity waves.
I like watching those shows, they make me laugh.
"One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact."
Mark Twain
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