This is why DJ Trump should be in jail.
Jun 19, 2023 17:12:49 #
Triple G wrote:
Only the guilty need pardons.
OR those unjustly convicted. You don't get out much do you?
Dennis
Jun 19, 2023 17:13:18 #
Jun 19, 2023 17:21:41 #
dennis2146 wrote:
And you seem to lack common sense that ALL Conserv... (show quote)
Come on Dennis. You're giving dumb people a bad name.
Jun 19, 2023 17:33:59 #
Frank T wrote:
Come on Dennis. You're giving dumb people a bad name.
It is pathetic that is the very best you can do. And YET....there you are.
Dennis
Jun 19, 2023 17:36:50 #
dennis2146 wrote:
OR those unjustly convicted. You don't get out much do you?
Dennis
Dennis
But stating you'd pardon trump even ahead of the court case presumes guilt.
Why the snark; is it just so intrinsic in your warped personality that it is as common as breathing to you?
I know one thing for absolute surety that the things I do and people I associate with are much smarter than you. I participated in a scholarship awarding program this weekend and I'll bet you wouldn't have understood any of the thesis presented.
Jun 19, 2023 17:59:08 #
dennis2146 wrote:
...You might be related to the Biden family if you truly believe what you said is true. Are you saying Biden having unsecured classified documents in his possession for years is not a crime because he FORGOT he had them. This is the idiotic POS you elected to lead America?
Dennis
Dennis
Pence also said he didn't realize that he had the documents that he possessed and the investigation into his possession has been closed without charges.
What are your thoughts on that?
Trump was in possession of over 300 such documents with classification markings that included all levels. If you had read the indictment you would have found that he is only being charged for 31 specific documents that had to do with national security issues.
Do you know why that is?
Violation of the Espionage Act can be charged for willful retention of national security documents whether they are classified or not. The prosecution only needs to convince a jury that Trump "willfully retained" those documents and that should be relatively easy given Trump's actions during the investigation the way he claimed ownership of the documents and obstructed their return, even taking measures to hide the documents from his own lawyers.
Jun 19, 2023 18:17:31 #
Triple G wrote:
But stating you'd pardon trump even ahead of the court case presumes guilt.
Why the snark; is it just so intrinsic in your warped personality that it is as common as breathing to you?
I know one thing for absolute surety that the things I do and people I associate with are much smarter than you. I participated in a scholarship awarding program this weekend and I'll bet you wouldn't have understood any of the thesis presented.
Why the snark; is it just so intrinsic in your warped personality that it is as common as breathing to you?
I know one thing for absolute surety that the things I do and people I associate with are much smarter than you. I participated in a scholarship awarding program this weekend and I'll bet you wouldn't have understood any of the thesis presented.
Oh wow, we're impressed. Didn't know we had an actual MENSA member on board.
Jun 19, 2023 18:29:18 #
dennis2146 wrote:
No you don't but you sure could help yourself by p... (show quote)
As I said, your entire post was lies.
Jun 19, 2023 18:58:04 #
Amielee
Loc: Eastern Washington State
I offer the following argument because it has been offered by other knowledgeable persons, do not think I agree or disagree with the following:
1. The legislature makes laws but cannot enforce them. The executive enforces laws but cannot make them.
2. A general rule of law is that when two laws disagree the last one made rules.
3. The Presidential Documents law does not mention Classified material and does include all Presidential Records and it gives the President control of all of his records. The President as commander in chief of the armed services can declassify documents.
4. The Presidential Documents Law was passed during the Clinton Administration 45 years after the Espionage Act
5. This offers President Trump (President not Mr. because he was a President) a strong defense in this case.
6. The one exception to the above is a single Restricted Document record. Restricted Documents are atomic energy documents and cannot be declassified by a President. They can only be declassified by agreement of both the Energy Department and the Department of Defense. The degree of classification of this single document in unknown by the general public and may or may not be a misdemeanor.
1. The legislature makes laws but cannot enforce them. The executive enforces laws but cannot make them.
2. A general rule of law is that when two laws disagree the last one made rules.
3. The Presidential Documents law does not mention Classified material and does include all Presidential Records and it gives the President control of all of his records. The President as commander in chief of the armed services can declassify documents.
4. The Presidential Documents Law was passed during the Clinton Administration 45 years after the Espionage Act
5. This offers President Trump (President not Mr. because he was a President) a strong defense in this case.
6. The one exception to the above is a single Restricted Document record. Restricted Documents are atomic energy documents and cannot be declassified by a President. They can only be declassified by agreement of both the Energy Department and the Department of Defense. The degree of classification of this single document in unknown by the general public and may or may not be a misdemeanor.
Jun 19, 2023 19:40:26 #
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
Biden's lawyers found the documents, and immediately made arrangements to return them, AND voluntarily invited the FBI / DOJ in to do a more thorough search.
On the other hand, trump played a shell game to hide the fact that he had still more documents beyond the boxes which had already been turned over after the first ask, and after a subpoena was issued.
No matter how you looked at it, trump OBSTRUCTED the retrieval of the documents he'd STOLEN from the White House.
On the other hand, trump played a shell game to hide the fact that he had still more documents beyond the boxes which had already been turned over after the first ask, and after a subpoena was issued.
No matter how you looked at it, trump OBSTRUCTED the retrieval of the documents he'd STOLEN from the White House.
Since you don't know or willingly ignore the facts, it may help you to remember that the first batch of top-secret documents were found at the Penn Biden Center in November. Subsequently, in December the second cache of files were found by Biden aides, not lawyers, in his garage at his home. The underlying issue is the unlawful possession of classified documents. Validation of the characterizations of obstruction and stealing are up to a jury to determine. I'm not taking your word for it.
Jun 19, 2023 19:50:19 #
Effate
Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
Frank T wrote:
Dennis,
Do you realize that calling someone a woman, as an insult, is actually very insulting to women and reveals that you are a misogynist?
Who am I kidding? Of course, you don't understand that. You're incapable of logical thought, which is probably why you're a Republican.
Do you realize that calling someone a woman, as an insult, is actually very insulting to women and reveals that you are a misogynist?
Who am I kidding? Of course, you don't understand that. You're incapable of logical thought, which is probably why you're a Republican.
Yes because we all know republicans have an exclusive license for stupidity. Some may even think Guam could capsize due to over population. Oh wait a minute, my bad, that was Hank Johnson (D) Georgia, 4th dist, questioning a military commander during a congressional hearing. Now should we gravitate to Senator Mazie Hirono’s brilliant lines of questioning?
Jun 19, 2023 19:54:58 #
Effate
Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
Equal treatment under the law also applies to sentencing!
If others are sentenced to prison time for STEALING and not returning classified or Secret documents, or for revealing the contents of classified or secret documents, why shouldn't trump be held to the same standards?
He's already received preferential treatment by not having to post bail, by not having to surrender his passport, and by not having his travel restricted.
If others are sentenced to prison time for STEALING and not returning classified or Secret documents, or for revealing the contents of classified or secret documents, why shouldn't trump be held to the same standards?
He's already received preferential treatment by not having to post bail, by not having to surrender his passport, and by not having his travel restricted.
You do realize bail isn’t suppose to be a form of punishment. It’s to insure one’s presence in court. Do you really think the most recognizable personality on the planet whose narcissistic inclinations would never allow anonymity is any kind of flight risk. Come on man!
Jun 19, 2023 20:10:32 #
FrumCA wrote:
Since you don't know or willingly ignore the facts, it may help you to remember that the first batch of top-secret documents were found at the Penn Biden Center in November. Subsequently, in December the second cache of files were found by Biden aides, not lawyers, in his garage at his home. The underlying issue is the unlawful possession of classified documents. Validation of the characterizations of obstruction and stealing are up to a jury to determine. I'm not taking your word for it.
Possession is not the crime alleged against trump. The only fair comparative of the government documents is what the person did after learning of possession. Pence has been cleared, trump is charged with obstruction, have to wait on Biden.
Jun 19, 2023 20:23:47 #
Shutterbug1697
Loc: Northeast
Amielee wrote:
I offer the following argument because it has been... (show quote)
Number 3 is incorrect!
The Presidential Records Act states that all documents, and notes produced during an administration are the property of the Federal Government and are to be turned over to NARA by the time a president leaves office.
IF a former president wants any of those documents for their future Presidential Library, the former president requests them, and NARA loans them to the Presidential Library, but they're always the property of the Federal Government.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
Although a sitting President can declassify some documents, there is a specific process which must be followed, because the respective departments and agencies need to review the content and determine if there are any human assets which could be unmasked and their lives put in danger if the record was declassified.
No records pertaining Nuclear weapons or secrets can be declassified.
As to number 5, it's FORMER President Trump, he's no longer the sitting President.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
The Espionage Act is still alive and very pertinent to this case. It clearly spells out the penalties for breaking the law.
https://www.intelligence.gov/evolution-of-espionage/world-war-1/america-declares-war/espionage-act#:~:text=Those%20charged%20with%20violations%20were,or%20even%20the%20death%20penalty.
One does not supercede the other.
They cover different kinds of documents and information.
Remember that during trump's term in office that there was a rash of Unexplained deaths of Russian informants.
Could trump have revealed any of their identities to Putin?
Jun 19, 2023 20:32:28 #
Shutterbug1697
Loc: Northeast
FrumCA wrote:
Since you don't know or willingly ignore the facts, it may help you to remember that the first batch of top-secret documents were found at the Penn Biden Center in November. Subsequently, in December the second cache of files were found by Biden aides, not lawyers, in his garage at his home. The underlying issue is the unlawful possession of classified documents. Validation of the characterizations of obstruction and stealing are up to a jury to determine. I'm not taking your word for it.
The underlying difference is that President Biden wilfully turned over the documents, AND invited the FBI / DOJ in to conduct a more indepth search.
On the other hand, trump chose to OBSTRUCT the retrieval of documents which trump had STOLEN from the White House, and stored in multiple locations around Mar-A-Lago, an off-site storage facility, and possibly at Bedminster as well.
How hard is that for you and the trump cult members to understand?
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