Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
Toyota CEO: "This New Engine Will Destroy The Entire EV Industry!"
Page <<first <prev 3 of 4 next>
May 9, 2023 15:50:06   #
bcheary Loc: Jacksonville, FL
 
TriX wrote:
It’s important to understand that Hydrogen is simply a storage mechanism like gasoline. How “green” the solution is depends on how the hydrogen is produced and how it’s used. If used in an IC engine, there is the oxides of nitrogen problem as already mentioned. Using it in a fuel cell eliminates that issue.

As far as production goes, there are many methods to produce Hydrogen, which vary in efficiency, but if the plan is to electrolyze water using electricity as shown in the video, then there’s this little issue of the fact that it takes more energy to produce than it yields as a fuel. That begs the question of why not just use the electricity directly? The loss in efficiency has to balanced against the drawbacks of current battery technology.

Of course, it would require a completely new distribution system. Although it needs to be upgraded, the electrical distribution system is already in place. And there’s the issue of the explosion potential when storing and transferring hydrogen. In terms of replacing gasoline/diesel IC power plants, it remains to be seen which technology, hydrogen, electric or another new technology, wins in the long run.
It’s important to understand that Hydrogen is simp... (show quote)


Time will tell. Hopefully the negatives will be worked out.

Reply
May 9, 2023 15:56:17   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
fetzler wrote:
ALL PROCESSES AND ALL ENGINES are subject to thermodynamic limits. Mother Nature says its the LAW.


Right. All processes have losses. Electrical sources lose energy by heating the wires connecting them to the load. Mechanical sources (motors) lose energy through friction. The lost energy is converted to heat.

Reply
May 9, 2023 16:50:07   #
Tex-s
 
Canisdirus wrote:
They fail at their primary purpose...being environmentally friendly...they are not.

Everything else is...irrelevant.


Just like the slave-ish labor that is employed to strip mine the rare earth metals for touch screens, the pollution in battery disposal, as well as the exponential energy overrun to make EV’s compared to convention ICE’s vitually guarantee the EV as it exists today is going the way of the dodo. Eventually, environmentalists will be forced to admit the math does not recommend EV’s as they exist today. To replace current tech, new tech must be both cleaner and cheaper, or it simply won’t be a replacement.

Reply
 
 
May 9, 2023 16:57:32   #
edrobinsonjr Loc: Boise, Idaho
 
I like the fuel cell as the solution...

Ed

Reply
May 9, 2023 17:08:10   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Tex-s wrote:
Just like the slave-ish labor that is employed to strip mine the rare earth metals for touch screens, the pollution in battery disposal, as well as the exponential energy overrun to make EV’s compared to convention ICE’s vitually guarantee the EV as it exists today is going the way of the dodo. Eventually, environmentalists will be forced to admit the math does not recommend EV’s as they exist today. To replace current tech, new tech must be both cleaner and cheaper, or it simply won’t be a replacement.
Just like the slave-ish labor that is employed to ... (show quote)


Yet many major manufacturers are moving to all electric. Volvo will be all electric by 2030 and Mercedes, which makes a large percentage of diesels and trucks is aiming for 50% by 2030, BMW is aiming for 50% by 2030 and manufacturers are making huge investments in building battery plants and converting factories to EVs. GM says it will phase out all IC powered vehicles by 2035, and Lincoln will be all electric by 2030. Honda and Volkswagen says all electric by 2040 and Subaru by 2030. Jaguar will be all electric by 2030, and Porsche will be 80% electric by then. Ford and Toyota/Lexus are both introducing new large lineups of EVS, with Toyota promising 70 new models by 2025. The wave is coming, and we better be beefing up our electric infrastructure to support them.

Reply
May 9, 2023 17:34:16   #
Haenzel Loc: South Holland, The Netherlands
 
Tex-s wrote:
Just like the slave-ish labor that is employed to strip mine the rare earth metals for touch screens, the pollution in battery disposal, as well as the exponential energy overrun to make EV’s compared to convention ICE’s vitually guarantee the EV as it exists today is going the way of the dodo. Eventually, environmentalists will be forced to admit the math does not recommend EV’s as they exist today. To replace current tech, new tech must be both cleaner and cheaper, or it simply won’t be a replacement.
Just like the slave-ish labor that is employed to ... (show quote)


EV's do have a future:

Initial tests of in-road charging for electric trucks on a stretch of Swedish road have been successful, according to project managers. The scope of testing will now increase, encompassing more vehicles, additional stretches of road, and higher speeds.
The project, dubbed "Smartroad Gotland" got underway in November 2019 with the installation of inductive charging equipment on a stretch of road between an airport and the town of Visby, on the Swedish island of Gotland.
The charging system consists of rubber-wrapped copper coils buried a little more than 3 inches deep, connected to the grid. Vehicles are equipped with receivers that allow them to draw current.
Sourced from Israeli firm ElecReon, the system is designed to be scalable. Coils can be embedded in longer stretches of road if needed, and vehicles can be equipped with multiple receivers (the truck used for testing had five of them).
Testing took place over a week and a half in winter conditions, with snow and rain, according to Smartroad Gotland.
The truck was able to charge both while stationary and while driving over a 164-foot section of road at speeds up to 18 mph. The system was able to charge the truck at a rate of 45 kilowatts, according to Smartroad Gotland.Over the coming months, Smartroad Gotland said it plans to test at "highway speed" with an increased charging rate 125 kw.
More stretches of road will be added as well, along with an electric airport shuttle bus.
Wireless charging of a moving vehicle has been accomplished before, but not on public roads. In 2017, Renault and Qualcomm charged a car at 60 mph on a test track. Qualcomm subsequently sold its wireless charging patents to startup WiTricity.
Wireless charging is more convenient than plugging in, but systems currently available have struggled to match the efficiency of conventional cables. In 2019, researchers at the Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory managed to wirelessly transfer 120 kw of power with 97% efficiency, but it's unclear if those results can be replicated in a commercial application.


I'm pretty sure the development of batteries will continue. The power density will increase and finding alternative sources to create different kind of batteries will be ongoing.

Reply
May 9, 2023 18:31:27   #
Dennis833 Loc: Australia
 
Sounds great but there are a lot of problems with Hydrogen cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjKwSF9gT8

Reply
 
 
May 9, 2023 18:33:47   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Nobody is saying that the current EVs are going to be scrapped. Surely someone will make an aftermarket fuel cell to replace the environmentally problematic battery.

Reply
May 9, 2023 18:37:57   #
CaltechNerd Loc: Whittier, CA, USA
 
fetzler wrote:
ALL PROCESSES AND ALL ENGINES are subject to thermodynamic limits. Mother Nature says its the LAW.


I don't believe so. But college was a LONG time ago :-)
But if memory serves, (T2 - T1)/T2 only applies to heat engines. A hydroelectric turbine can be as efficient as the engineer's design and imagination. The potential energy between the height of the water behind the dam and in front of the dam can be converted, 99%, to usable energy. I believe the same is true of fuel cells. Not so with heat engines.

Reply
May 9, 2023 18:47:28   #
TMeitz
 
The whole country is about 100 miles long and 50 miles wide, sure it will work great for them, hard to do 500 miles in an electric car in 2 days.

Reply
May 9, 2023 19:53:42   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
bcheary wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTawvzH0MQ4&t=95s

I have always maintained that hydrogen is the future.


About a year ago I questioned why we didn't pursue hydrogen since I had seen buses and other commercial vehicles using it and was totally shot down by almost everyone on the hog -- IT JUST WON'T WORK! Someone even posted a video of a woman explaining why hydrogen wasn't part of the equation for future energy needs. Now it is getting a lot of attention -- amazing how things change in just a year!

Reply
 
 
May 9, 2023 20:19:33   #
bcheary Loc: Jacksonville, FL
 
Bridges wrote:
About a year ago I questioned why we didn't pursue hydrogen since I had seen buses and other commercial vehicles using it and was totally shot down by almost everyone on the hog -- IT JUST WON'T WORK! Someone even posted a video of a woman explaining why hydrogen wasn't part of the equation for future energy needs. Now it is getting a lot of attention -- amazing how things change in just a year!


Yup! Things are sure changing!

Reply
May 9, 2023 20:22:30   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Bridges wrote:
About a year ago I questioned why we didn't pursue hydrogen since I had seen buses and other commercial vehicles using it and was totally shot down by almost everyone on the hog -- IT JUST WON'T WORK! Someone even posted a video of a woman explaining why hydrogen wasn't part of the equation for future energy needs. Now it is getting a lot of attention -- amazing how things change in just a year!


Have the commercial vehicles and busses you’ve seen been using Hydrogen or CNG (compressed natural gas)? That is very common. We have lots of commercial vehicles using CNG here in my city in NC

Reply
May 9, 2023 21:47:34   #
DVZ Loc: Littleton CO
 
Currently in the US both hydrogen and electric cars depend on fossel fuels. Either could make sense if we had more nuclear power plants. The energy audits seem to indicate that electric cars and ic cars polute about the same, that's a cradle to grave audit. France the electric cars polute less because a larger percent of their electricity is generated via nuclear power plants.

Reply
May 9, 2023 21:56:02   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
“To date, about 2.5 million EVs have been sold in the U.S. By contrast, as of mid-2022, 15,000 or fewer hydrogen-powered vehicles can be found on U.S. roads. All of them will be in California, the sole state with a network of only 45 retail hydrogen fueling stations to make the cars usable.” (Car and Driver)

Reply
Page <<first <prev 3 of 4 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.