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Mirror or Mirrorless when shooting landscapes
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May 5, 2023 11:12:06   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Well...you stated you like only optical viewpoints.

A TV...is a big EVF...in a way.
Radio isn't live after all...all that pesky software...


What pesky SW? Unless you’re listening on a digital or streaming service or using a direct conversion receiver or processing audio with a DSP (something some ham radios use, but no need in a consumer device), most radio is still pure analog and real time (except for the speed of light of course).

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May 5, 2023 11:15:40   #
ldhflyguy Loc: near Chicago
 
[quote=Ysarex][b]

On your right is my processed image and it's a pretty fair representation of that iris and what it looked like out in the garden a couple hours ago. In practical terms, an OVF would have shown me an image much more faithful to the iris I photographed. I'd prefer that to what you see here on your left. I think the difference shown has practical implications for using the camera and in photographic terms it is certainly both measurable and quantifiable.[/quote]

I'm wondering if you need to change a setting on your camera to get a better EVF version of what you are focusing on. If all mirrorless camera EVF work like yours, I believe sales would be way less. I would just stick with my D850 and quit hoping for a Z8.

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May 5, 2023 11:35:45   #
47greyfox Loc: on the edge of the Colorado front range
 
My approach to landscape shooting is no different with my R5 than any DSLR before. IMHO, that’s (maybe) either good or bad. 🥴

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May 5, 2023 11:41:06   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Bill_de wrote:
For those landscape photographers who are dedicated to the genre, does it make a difference?
Just curious

---


Nope, never had never will.

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May 5, 2023 11:46:22   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
burkphoto wrote:
It can. If you are hiking with minimal gear, a Micro 4/3 camera with a high resolution mode can give you an 80 or 100 MP raw file, due to its combination of excellent in-body image stabilization with step and repeat exposure routines.

Using the electronic shutter mode on any mirrorless camera that has one, turning off all artificial shutter sounds, and using a two second delay when on a sand-bagged tripod, will give you the least camera shake in your images.

That said, very careful use of a dSLR can yield excellent results, too. Lock up the mirror or use live view mode, turn off image stabilization, sand-bag your tripod, and turn off any artificial shutter sounds the camera can use in electronic shutter/live view mode.
It can. If you are hiking with minimal gear, a Mic... (show quote)


At 73 I know the day is coming when even lifting the 800mm to get it on the tripod will be too much.

After seeing your posts on Micro 4/3, that is my most likely next move. I hope to hold out a little longer, but when that day comes I'll be looking to you for advice.

---

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May 5, 2023 11:53:08   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
MountainDave wrote:
One big benefit of a R5 vs 5D4 is the increase in dynamic range. With the 5D4, if I tried recovering shadow detail in post, it would become unnatural looking and add a lot of noise. That's why a lot of photographers "expose to the right." With the R5, I can turn images that would have been hopeless with the 5D4 into beautiful natural looking images. This has offered me more opportunities to play with difficult lighting and be more creative. Is this because of being mirrorless or just sensor advancement? I don't know. Sony was always the leader in this respect and they were always mirrorless.
One big benefit of a R5 vs 5D4 is the increase in ... (show quote)

The R5 offers +1 stop more DR than the 5dIV -- it's sensor advancement. Canon could put the R5 sensor in a 5dV and you'd have the same result from both cameras.

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May 5, 2023 12:11:33   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
ldhflyguy wrote:
I'm wondering if you need to change a setting on your camera to get a better EVF version of what you are focusing on. If all mirrorless camera EVF work like yours, I believe sales would be way less. I would just stick with my D850 and quit hoping for a Z8.

Unfortunately not an option if I want to keep using the live-view exposure aids in the camera and take the photo I want to take. For example Fuji has an EVF mode they call Natural Live View as well as an option to disengage the EVF displaying exposure changes. That would improve the EVF image over what I had in that photo but that also renders useless the highlight clipping warning that I use to set exposure. Exposure is the issue. I posted that iris photo here this morning: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-773153-1.html#13893147 If you download it and examine the EXIF data you'll see that I had the EC set to +1.7 when I took the photo. That explains why the EVF image is so bad. If I removed the +1.7 EC and then set a custom WB I'd have a much better looking EVF image and JPEG, (though still not the photo I wanted to take). But I would also end up with a raw file that was exposed 1.7 stops less than I wanted. There's the point; I'm taking the photo and I know how I want it exposed. I selected the best possible sensor exposure rather than the exposure that makes for a good looking EVF image. I don't want the exposure that makes the EVF image and JPEG look good. I want the exposure that produces the best possible raw file.

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May 5, 2023 12:25:05   #
ldhflyguy Loc: near Chicago
 
Ysarex wrote:
Unfortunately not an option if I want to keep using the live-view exposure aids in the camera and take the photo I want to take. For example Fuji has an EVF mode they call Natural Live View as well as an option to disengage the EVF displaying exposure changes. That would improve the EVF image over what I had in that photo but that also renders useless the highlight clipping warning that I use to set exposure. Exposure is the issue. I posted that iris photo here this morning: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-773153-1.html#13893147 If you download it and examine the EXIF data you'll see that I had the EC set to +1.7 when I took the photo. That explains why the EVF image is so bad. If I removed the +1.7 EC and then set a custom WB I'd have a much better looking EVF image and JPEG, (though still not the photo I wanted to take). But I would also end up with a raw file that was exposed 1.7 stops less than I wanted. There's the point; I'm taking the photo and I know how I want it exposed. I selected the best possible sensor exposure rather than the exposure that makes for a good looking EVF image. I don't want the exposure that makes the EVF image and JPEG look good. I want the exposure that produces the best possible raw file.
Unfortunately not an option if I want to keep usin... (show quote)


Consider me educated. I see your points.

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May 5, 2023 13:59:56   #
User ID
 
Ysarex wrote:
I don't own a camera with an OVF -- all my cameras are mirrorless.

Here's that peek I just mentioned. I was out in the garden this evening snapping photos of the irises. Below you see on the left the JPEG my camera created. My camera does a really good job of showing me in the EVF what it's JPEG will look like. (You've said that's a positive feature. It's not for me.) Now in practical terms: In order for me to have the exposure aids in the EVF function I have to allow the camera to simulate in the EVF the JPEG it will create. THEREFORE what I had to look at in the EVF is what you see on your left -- and it really sucks. That's not the photo I was taking; it's the camera's cr*ppy JPEG. To get the JPEG looking better and therefore the EVF looking better I would have to compromise the exposure for the photo I was taking. Why should I do that?

On your right is my processed image and it's a pretty fair representation of that iris and what it looked like out in the garden a couple hours ago. In practical terms, an OVF would have shown me an image much more faithful to the iris I photographed. I'd prefer that to what you see here on your left. I think the difference shown has practical implications for using the camera and in photographic terms it is certainly both measurable and quantifiable.
b I don't own a camera with an OVF -- all my came... (show quote)


Beats me why you or anyone has such discussions with "the professor". The whole thing is a completely predictable waste of your time.

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May 5, 2023 14:03:56   #
User ID
 
joehel2 wrote:
DSLR, mirrorless or I Phone, no difference in the end result if you know how to nail the composition.

"Composition" is the last final refuge of the clueless.

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May 5, 2023 14:05:26   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
User ID wrote:
"Composition" is the last final refuge of the clueless.



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May 5, 2023 14:06:24   #
User ID
 
bbrown5154 wrote:
I'm still lugging a D750 around but have been thinking of going mirrorless for hiking.

What a waste of "think energy" :-(

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May 5, 2023 14:18:45   #
User ID
 
Ysarex wrote:
Unfortunately not an option if I want to keep using the live-view exposure aids in the camera and take the photo I want to take. For example Fuji has an EVF mode they call Natural Live View as well as an option to disengage the EVF displaying exposure changes. That would improve the EVF image over what I had in that photo but that also renders useless the highlight clipping warning that I use to set exposure. Exposure is the issue. I posted that iris photo here this morning: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-773153-1.html#13893147 If you download it and examine the EXIF data you'll see that I had the EC set to +1.7 when I took the photo. That explains why the EVF image is so bad. If I removed the +1.7 EC and then set a custom WB I'd have a much better looking EVF image and JPEG, (though still not the photo I wanted to take). But I would also end up with a raw file that was exposed 1.7 stops less than I wanted. There's the point; I'm taking the photo and I know how I want it exposed. I selected the best possible sensor exposure rather than the exposure that makes for a good looking EVF image. I don't want the exposure that makes the EVF image and JPEG look good. I want the exposure that produces the best possible raw file.
Unfortunately not an option if I want to keep usin... (show quote)

Its *ALL* about the viewfinder !!!

The viewfinder is the real essence of any camera. Most camera genres are named for their type of viewfinder.

Ages ago, the interchangeable screen was a mark of top shelf SLRs. Today, that idea has wondrously evolved into the huuugely customizable EVF.

Acoarst now you dont just choose an SLR screen. Theres a whole lot more involved in customizing your EVF, but its worth it.

-----------------------------------------

Found this crazy cool (aka awesome) new option while setting up a GH6. In the pic below theres a central green dot. When you half press the shutter button for a handheld shot it dances around. The less steady you are, the farther it moves, and the vectors of its motions matches the directions of your hand motion. Its driven by the IBIS gyros. Its helps you to be as steady as you are able.

Its all about the viewfinder :-)


(Download)

Demo in action: Phone cam in left hand, GH6 in right hand, I am very unsteady !
Demo in action: Phone cam in left hand, GH6 in rig...
(Download)

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May 5, 2023 14:55:52   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
If you can't succeed with a mirrorless camera, you're not a photographer.

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May 5, 2023 14:55:56   #
petrochemist Loc: UK
 
It only makes a difference to me if I'm shooting infra red (where the EVF shows me what the camera can see not limited to my sight), or adapting a lens that can't focus on a DSLR.

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