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The Student Loan Giveaway is Much Bigger Than You Think
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Sep 20, 2022 12:53:48   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
WNYShooter wrote:
https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2022/08/the-student-loan-giveaway-its-much-bigger-than-you-think.html

Wiping out 10k in student debt is not the most expensive part of the Biden student loan program. Most Federal student loans are now eligible for an income based repayment plan, under these plans students pay a small percentage of their “discretionary” income, say 10%, and then after a fixed number of years the debt is wiped off the student’s books. At first glance these plans don’t seem crazy, but as Matt Bruenig points out they create perverse incentives.

Under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program, law graduates that go on to work in the public sector, which is a lot of them as the public sector employs many lawyers, only have to pay 10 percent of their discretionary income for 10 years in order to have their debt forgiven.

Law schools figured out many years ago that, for a student who is planning to enroll in PSLF upon graduation, prices and debt loads don’t matter. Ten percent of your discretionary income is ten percent of your discretionary income regardless of what the law school charges you and how much debt you nominally have to take on.

Law schools also realized that they could make the deal even sweeter by setting up LRAPs [repayment programs, AT] that give graduates money to cover the the modest repayments required by the PSLF.

The LRAP schemes work as follows:

The school increases their tuition.
The student takes out federal loans to cover the tuition increase.
The school squirrels away the debt-financed tuition increase into an LRAP fund.
The school disburses money from the LRAP fund to cover PSLF repayments.
Did you get that? Here’s a stylized example. Suppose a student will make 150k per year for 10 years working in the public sector. If they have 200k in debt they pay 15k every year to the government for 10 years and then 50k is “forgiven.” But now the law school comes to the student and says ‘heh, I have a deal which will make both of us better off. We are going to raise the price of law school to 400k but don’t worry not only won’t that cost you a penny more than the 15k a year you are already obligated to pay it will actually cost you much less because we will pay your payments of 15k per year!’ This indeed is a great deal for the student who pays nothing and it’s a great deal for the law school which gets 200k more revenue immediately in return for 150k of payments paid out over the following 10 years. Win-win! Except for the taxpayer of course.

But wait there’s more. Student loans can be used not only to pay tuition and fees but also to pay “living expenses.” Thus, under these plans, students have an incentive to take out as big a loan as allowed in excess of tuition and fees because no matter how large the loan the student’s costs are zero! Lyman Stone has a good tweet thread giving many examples of how to game the system such as “Every student should borrow their maximum loan eligibility and then find some way to invest it illegally. My strategy would be: rent a wildly oversized apartment and sublet.” And here is a tweet thread from Michael Feinberg showing how even wealthy parents may be able to game the system.

Furthermore, the new Biden plan makes the income driven repayment schemes even more generous!

The IDR changes are four-fold:

Increase the amount of income not subject to IDR from 150 percent of the federal poverty line to 225 percent of the federal poverty line.
Reduce the interest rate on IDR-enrolled loans to 0 percent.
For undergraduate debt, reduce the IDR rate from 10 percent of income beyond the threshold in (1) to 5 percent of income beyond the threshold in (1).
For IDR-enrolled debts with original loan balances below $12,000, reduce the repayment period from 20 years to 10 years.
Essentially what this means is that every school will now have the possibility of using a law school like program to shift costs onto taxpayers. Thus Bruenig concludes:

…going forward, these new rules could quite radically alter the incentives of colleges and students when it comes to college prices, institutional financial aid, how much debt to take on, and how to approach repayment.

Indeed, these programs are likely to be very expensive and the resulting increase in the price of tuition will lead to calls either to end the program or for price controls on education.
https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/... (show quote)


Where is the Equity for the rest of us?



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Sep 20, 2022 13:16:50   #
Alafoto Loc: Montgomery, AL
 
jcboy3 wrote:
Sounds good to me. Except I'm on the never-ending party and exotic year-round travel plan.

Smart people know how to get other people to pay for their fun.


You must be so proud. Are you going to enroll yourself in the welfare system too? Avoid the subsidized housing. You won't like the neighbors.

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Sep 20, 2022 14:42:23   #
jcboy3
 
Alafoto wrote:
You must be so proud. Are you going to enroll yourself in the welfare system too? Avoid the subsidized housing. You won't like the neighbors.


I am proud. Proud to be an anti-Magaroon American. Social Security, Medicare, Pension, VA mortgage. Give me those govmnt bennies! I like my neighbors.

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Sep 20, 2022 16:45:49   #
Penny MG Loc: Fresno, Texas
 
jcboy3 wrote:
What happened is that state governments stopped supporting state schools like they used to. People were talked into loans they couldn't afford to pay back because the jobs they could get after graduating didn't pay enough to pay off the loans. Financial crises set a lot of people back, but while payments could be deferred, interest accrual was not and a lot of people wound up owing two times or more what they borrowed. And it is practically impossible to get out from under the debt through bankruptcy.

Obviously, you have no sympathy for the younger generation getting screwed over.

I do think that the income limits on this are too high, and the payoff amount is too low. But I also think something needs to be done to fix this, because there are a lot of people that are underwater and sinking rather than swimming.
What happened is that state governments stopped su... (show quote)


I don't have any sympathy for the younger generation. They too, like us, need to LEARN how to deal with finances and life in general. Handing them everything on a silver platter just makes them lazy and unambitious. To truly appreciate what one has, they must work for it.

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Sep 20, 2022 16:46:34   #
Penny MG Loc: Fresno, Texas
 
Architect1776 wrote:
I have NO sympathy.
Most degrees are crap anyway.
Very few jobs actually require a degree.
Teachers know going in that teaching pays crap.
Colleges arbitrarily raise tuition knowing there is easy money.
States know the same so spend money on welfare programs and let the feds give out easy money.
If I were applying for a loan for a house with crap credit and no way to repay I would be denied. Yet teenagers are given up to hundreds of thousands unsecured for worthless degrees. Sounds like all are looking to screw real working Americans for a 4 year party and exotic summer travels.
I have NO sympathy. br Most degrees are crap anyw... (show quote)


Well stated!

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Sep 20, 2022 16:47:50   #
Penny MG Loc: Fresno, Texas
 
Triple G wrote:
Your avatar should be ancient Archie due to your lack of understanding.


WTH are you talking about. He was spot on. Oh wait, nevermind.... you're a leftie. You want everything free.

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Sep 20, 2022 16:48:48   #
Penny MG Loc: Fresno, Texas
 
jcboy3 wrote:
Sounds good to me. Except I'm on the never-ending party and exotic year-round travel plan.

Smart people know how to get other people to pay for their fun.


That's not smart people.... that's people with no values or morals. Oh yeah....the prime word that fits your description is CROOK.

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Sep 20, 2022 16:59:57   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Fotoartist wrote:
Where is the Equity for the rest of us?


Exactly.

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Sep 20, 2022 17:01:29   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Penny MG wrote:
That's not smart people.... that's people with no values or morals. Oh yeah....the prime word that fits your description is CROOK.



Very good.

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Sep 20, 2022 17:06:44   #
Triple G
 
Penny MG wrote:
WTH are you talking about. He was spot on. Oh wait, nevermind.... you're a leftie. You want everything free.


Just how many do you know who are lazy and unmotivated and getting free stuff that you're an expert on the subject?

I don't know a single person who hasn't worked their tails off being teacher/parent/worker these past two years. If some of them get $10k and it helps them; I'm all for it!

Working a traditional job like you and ancient Archie want them to do is not how the new generations want to thrive. Just because people aren't taking those traditional jobs doesn't mean they're losers or moochers. How many gig workers do you know?

https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/side-gigs/ways-make-money-without-9-to-5/amp/

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Sep 20, 2022 17:18:21   #
The Aardvark Is Ready
 
Triple G wrote:
Just how many do you know who are lazy and unmotivated and getting free stuff that you're an expert on the subject?

I don't know a single person who hasn't worked their tails off being teacher/parent/worker these past two years. If some of them get $10k and it helps them; I'm all for it!

Working a traditional job like you and ancient Archie want them to do is not how the new generations want to thrive. Just because people aren't taking those traditional jobs doesn't mean they're losers or moochers. How many gig workers do you know?

https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/side-gigs/ways-make-money-without-9-to-5/amp/
Just how many do you know who are lazy and unmotiv... (show quote)


Maybe taking those "traditional" jobs as you call them , might not be the way they want to "thrive", but we don't always get what we want. Maybe if they had taken those "traditional" jobs, they may have been able to repay their loans. I don't particularly like working a "traditional" job. But, I don't claim I'm owed $10,000.

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Sep 20, 2022 17:27:47   #
Triple G
 
The Aardvark Is Ready wrote:
Maybe taking those "traditional" jobs as you call them , might not be the way they want to "thrive", but we don't always get what we want. Maybe if they had taken those "traditional" jobs, they may have been able to repay their loans. I don't particularly like working a "traditional" job. But, I don't claim I'm owed $10,000.


Did you get coerced into a predatory loan that has compounded interest to become a total well beyond reason?

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Sep 20, 2022 17:38:43   #
The Aardvark Is Ready
 
Triple G wrote:
Did you get coerced into a predatory loan that has compounded interest to become a total well beyond reason?


No and like them nobody put a gun to my head. I overpaid for cars a couple times in my life, do to my shoddy research, shady dealers and negotiating skills. But nobody paid off my loans. It was my fault and my fault only.

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Sep 20, 2022 17:43:23   #
Triple G
 
The Aardvark Is Ready wrote:
No and like them nobody put a gun to my head. I overpaid for cars a couple times in my life, do to my shoddy research, shady dealers and negotiating skills. But nobody paid off my loans. It was my fault and my fault only.


Read up what transpired. I and others have posted the problem outlined from many perspectives. Unless it's successfully challenged legally, it stands. Now, let's fix the cost structure of education.

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Sep 20, 2022 17:58:16   #
The Aardvark Is Ready
 
Triple G wrote:
Read up what transpired. I and others have posted the problem outlined from many perspectives. Unless it's successfully challenged legally, it stands. Now, let's fix the cost structure of education.


I am always open to being educated. Opinions always change when new information is received. Do you have the title of the topic you posted your perspective on? I don't see anything on this one.

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