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Ethics of postprocessing
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Sep 20, 2021 10:34:07   #
monroephoto
 
Yeah, yeah, so answer the question (which is fairly pointless), do you just take your photographs from the camera and say - "Done" - or is any amount of post processing allowed in your premise-oriented world? And before you answer, just remember a camera shooting JPEG - as I understand it - is adding its own tweaks to the image. If shooting RAW, the photograph might not look as nice straight out of camera, but it gives post-processing greater range. Not exploring "wish fulfillment" as you call it, might be little more than just not wanting to learn how to edit.

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Sep 20, 2021 10:50:40   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Leinik wrote:
... Most seasoned photographers (the guy who shot and printed Moonrise over Hernandez being one) will frame and expose their image according to the result/print they intend to create (process called either "visualisation" (A. Adams) or "pre-visualization" (to make the concept clearer as the "pre" indicates the the photographer's intention/vision predates the taking of the photograph)...


You are describing one type of photography where a scene is static and you have time to make all the necessary adjustments.

My example is another type: event photography. When a scene presents itself, you have maybe a half second to get your camera into position and press the release before the scene evaporates and another scene takes over. With such rapid changes it will be inevitable that your camera settings are not the ideal settings for THAT scene. Enter postprocessing to correct exposure, straighten the frame, crop, and make allowances for lighting.

Speaking of lighting, there are cases in which the white balance will vary across the scene. Sunlight on one side, incandescent (or even fluorescent) on the other. There is NO camera setting that will accommodate that scene. It will be necessary to produce two images with different white balance and blend the results in postprocessing. I'm sure we have all seen examples of that sort of thing.

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Sep 20, 2021 10:58:53   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
sb wrote:
The answers to most questions in life are: "it depends", and "well, there are degrees of truth"...

Uncle Bob couldn't come to the wedding, so let's just stick him in there as well...




I will admit to inserting aunt Beth in a group shot. The shot was meant for family history, showing the family members together. I think aunt Beth was in the restroom at the time of the shot so she was not in the original group, but she was at the event.

The importance of reality is diminished when it comes to family shots. Everyone wants the family members to look their best so they can be remembered that way. Reality is not the purpose of the image in that case.

I have also transmogrified photos to show something that was not reality. When I show it to someone I let them know it is a composite image. If they see it when I'm not around, well I'll just say that "no reasonable person would believe that was reality".


(Download)

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Sep 20, 2021 11:00:06   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
Photography is painting with light. By definition, it infers that it is an "Art" camp. Correcting colors, lifting shadows, modifying exposure and contrast are all basic functions to bring out the best of what has been processed by the camera. In my case, it is always the need to correct settings that I should have made with the camera settings for that particular setting.

This brings me to this...."Is not tweaking the camera settings not doing the same thing as what I needed to do in post-processing?" "Is the camera not making changes to what IT feels more fitting?"

I suspect that the best National Geographic award-winning photos have had some post-processing applied to them. I believe there was a time that photos used as evidence were taken with a Polaroid Camera so that the image could not be altered in any way.

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Sep 20, 2021 11:06:18   #
JeffDavidson Loc: Originally Detroit Now Los Angeles
 
In days of film printing, dodging ands burning, changing contrast, etc. were all part of the game. Nobody complained then.

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Sep 20, 2021 11:26:15   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
If Ansel Adams was the photographer worthy of that name, he'd do a better job Straight Out Of Camera like a Real Photographer.

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Sep 20, 2021 11:55:33   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
But it is closer to reality than the original. The complexion of the people on the left is not darker than those on the right.

The darkened faces is an artifact of the lighting.


As you said in the OP, there is a difference of opinion. Beating a dead horse isn't going to change that.

----

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Sep 20, 2021 11:58:10   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
A camera sees the world differently than the human eye, so who cares what the camera saw?



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Sep 20, 2021 12:16:04   #
rondmallett Loc: Colorado, near Wyoming
 
I go back 50+ years with a single=shot and Tri-X film.
I worked for the Denver Post covering sports.
In the dark room, I would vary solution intensity,
time and temperature. I would 'dodge' certain areas
while using the enlarger. So, I guess post'tampering'
has always been around. Even in photojournalism.

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Sep 20, 2021 12:16:33   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
Photography is painting with light. By definition, it infers that it is an "Art" camp. Correcting colors, lifting shadows, modifying exposure and contrast are all basic functions to bring out the best of what has been processed by the camera. In my case, it is always the need to correct settings that I should have made with the camera settings for that particular setting.

This brings me to this...."Is not tweaking the camera settings not doing the same thing as what I needed to do in post-processing?" "Is the camera not making changes to what IT feels more fitting?"

I suspect that the best National Geographic award-winning photos have had some post-processing applied to them. I believe there was a time that photos used as evidence were taken with a Polaroid Camera so that the image could not be altered in any way.
Photography is painting with light. By definition... (show quote)


I did a little forensic photography back in the film days, and even then, photographs were not automatically considered as "true". Either the photographer had to testify as to the truth of what the photographs showed, or the attorneys had to stipulate that they represented reality.

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Sep 20, 2021 12:20:30   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
The road to hell is paved with plans to recover it in post.

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Sep 20, 2021 12:29:39   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
The road to hell is paved with plans to recover it in post.
Is this a new addition to your collection?


.

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Sep 20, 2021 12:30:17   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
The camera reproduces what is there. Photoshop reproduces what I saw.

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Sep 20, 2021 12:34:38   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Is this a new addition to your collection?


LOL - I have more than 1100 of these, so statistically, some are still waiting their chance to shine.

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Sep 20, 2021 12:37:39   #
mikegreenwald Loc: Illinois
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
It is said that "life is too short" and as we age, it gets even shorter. Factor in climate change, pollution, lousy diets, smoking, too much booze, political upheaval, stress, and all the bad stuff in the news every day- our time is getting even shorter. Add in the rising crime rate and it becomes more likely that someone will shoot us or bludgeon us to death over a parking space.

So, if you are truly into PHOTOGRAPHY, why waste so much precious time philosophizing, etymologizing, superimposing ethics on art that doesn't really exist instead of picking up your bloody camera and gear that y'all argue about and making PHOTOGRAPHS. Your images are a hell of a better way of expressing your vision and views on life or whatever the heck you want to say.

Ansel Adams and Co. and William Mortensen battled it out about realism vs. fantasy ages ago! Old news! Philosophy my foot! It was about a fight over which exclusive galleries would promote their work - MONEY! Otherwise, there is space in the world for all kinds of art!

More BS about weddig photograhy- MAN! Of course, it is not pure photojournalism, It is not like Cousin Orville and his bride Matilda's wedding cover is gonna end up on the front page of the New York Times or in the pages of a major NEWS magazine. A wedding couple and their photographer can opt for a photojournalistic style of coverage, a more formal posed approach, a mixture of both, or anything in between. The only ethics involved is that the photograher provides what was contracted for, works hard to deliver a good product, and treats the client, their guests, and the clergy or house of worship with respect and kindness. And, what's with that out-of-focus weddig shot? When I first saw it, I was gonna make an appointment with my optometrist- I figured it was time for a new prescription!

Burning and dodging are old stuff. It is not fakery- get over it!

Binary notation is mathematics, not the art ot photograhy. 1-10. At college, I did OK in math- trig, calculus, differential equations- not bad. I quit when it came to "base-8" when the prof said it just like "base 10" if you have two fingers missing.

Post-processing ethics? Folks are saying that you have to include notices or disclaimers to the effect that a photograph has been altered in some way in post-processing. That would make sense if such editing is allowed or prohibited in the rules of a competition, etc., or to avoid misrepresenting in teaching. Otherwise- REALLY? It's like asking an abstract painter to include notice to the effect that "this painting is not realistic, it is my vision after ingesting LSD"! How about "This portrait of Mrs. Higginbottom is heavily retouched. I real life she looks like The Wicked Witch of the North, however, due to my exceptional retouching skills, she appears, in this image as a glamour movie star"!

I am not a genius but I take pictures just about every day- it's my day job as well as my hobby. Some of my commercial work is creatively challenging and exciting and some of it is pure drudgery- I take the bad with the good. My personal work is fun. All in all, I love work as a job, an art/craft, and a great way to earn a living. As for ethics- in business, I treat my clients with honesty, hard work, and integrity. In my personal work, well, my philosophy is simple. I shoot what I like, how I like, as per my mood. I photograph things and people as they were, as they are and how I woud like to remember them.

I like to share my work with others and hope they enjoy it. At work, if they don't like it, I don't get paid so I make sure they love it. After all, a guy's gotta eat and feed his family!
It is said that "life is too short" and ... (show quote)



"...too much booze...."
Is there any such thing?
We need to check with Paul.

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