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Lost Technology, or are we just "Lost"
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Jan 25, 2021 08:38:22   #
Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV
 
SAVH wrote:
I certainly remember the shot guns as well - but certainly not fondly. If you flinched during the shot, it could tear the flesh. I always opted for the normal syringe shots when it was an option.

Scotty


I am a witness to that, while going down the line getting shots on each arm I moved or the machine was not placed at the correct angle because it blew a chunk of skin off the arm but not to worry, the guy just lowered the gun and shot me again and said move on soldier!

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Jan 25, 2021 09:25:53   #
andesbill
 
You can’t decontaminate them that easily, unfortunately.
Remember that the military was dealing with well known vaccines that could be prepared in advance and stored on site. So, everything was ready for mass vaccination.
The problem now is that we don’t have enough vaccines to do a mass vaccination like that. The companies are having a difficult time getting all the materials needed because billions of people want it.

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Jan 25, 2021 10:15:49   #
akfishguide Loc: PA
 
I flinched also and blood ran down my arm. Ahh, yes, the good old days. Needles in one arm and air gun in the other. Then the 'gama G' shot in the butt during the 'short arm' inspection. Then out on the 'grinder' to do a bit of exercise so the body parts did not get sore from the shots. Another memorable day in boot camp.

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Jan 25, 2021 10:59:25   #
fourlocks Loc: Londonderry, NH
 
When I went through the air injector gun line, they first swabbed the hell out of my arm and the end of the gun with alcohol...making each surface very slippery. Although my "squirt" went fine, I saw the gun slide a little as the technician pulled the trigger on the next guy and it left a nice, half-inch slice in the poor guy's arm. In today's society, I could see multiple lawsuits for maiming the recipient.

Others have noted the cross-infection issue and I'd bet there'd be problems with the requirement to keep the vaccine at a very low temperature until just before injection.

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Jan 25, 2021 11:12:37   #
Wyantry Loc: SW Colorado
 
Bison Bud wrote:
I may be mistaken, but I believe the air guns placed the vaccine just under the skin rather than deeply into muscle tissue. From the Covid vaccine shots I've seen on the news, it appears that they are deeply injected and this might be part of why the guns are no longer used. I also think person to person contamination may be a big issue as well. Overall, I think the real problem is that they are being too picky about who gets the vaccine first when they should be injecting anyone that shows up until they are out of the current shipment. If vaccine distribution then becomes an issue we can deal with it, but holding back the vaccine to make sure they control who gets it first is just wrong. We all need the vaccine and as soon as possible!
I may be mistaken, but I believe the air guns plac... (show quote)


It does appear the vaccinations (Pfizer and Moderna) are designed for intramuscular injection — predominantly in the upper arm (Deltoid) muscle. This is evidently to promote rapid absorption into the bloodstream.

As far as distribution is concerned, it appears the demand for the vaccinations was vastly underestimated. Like the masks and other protective equipment, production has lagged demand. Production-increase should have started sooner, and been more rapid.

False information concerning supply-levels (“government reserves”) and the lack of a coordinated ramp-up and distribution plan by the federal government appears to be a root cause for the current problems.

Evidently leaving things up to the individual states leadership and politicians has created un-coordinated and confusing distribution.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do not have a problem with some sort of prioritization, with the most “at-risk” populations getting higher priority, IF there is a degree of consistency. (I point to Florida, where anyone, regardless of residence, can just get-in-line and receive a vaccination BEFORE citizens of the state might get theirs).
Just ‘throwing it open’ i.e. First-come-first-served might be a cause of rioting and civil unrest as well.

One of the things I am MOST against is the concept of political figures getting some sort of precedence over others.

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Jan 25, 2021 11:27:48   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
Injection needles are much improved to the point (not a pun) where I don’t even feel the poke. Most of the feeling is the space displacement by the fluid going in. Back in my Navy days (early 50s) I would swear they used rattlesnake fangs.

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Jan 25, 2021 11:31:36   #
tomad Loc: North Carolina
 
Bill Emmett wrote:
Over the many years of technologic gains it seems we have lost a good bit of our edge. Trying to give millions of Americans a injection of the Covid Vaccine, one by one seems a bit antiquated. I remember standing in line with hundreds of sailors getting our vaccinations at the inductions station, when a corpsman placed gun type injector against my arm, and shot the vaccine in my arms. What has happened to this technology? That gun system injected not a 100, but a 1000 or so per hour. We were constantly prodded to move along faster, and not stall the line. With that equipment we could keep the line moving throughout the day, with no delay. Make the paperwork available in advance, and filled out before you arrive at the site. Those who need to fill out the papers, have a desk available, but the line goes on. Pop, Pop, goes the gun, 24-7 until all are vaccinated. I'm sure all Viet Nam Vets remember those guns.

Surfwooder
Over the many years of technologic gains it seems ... (show quote)


Yes, as a former Navy man myself, I was wondering the same thing.

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Jan 25, 2021 11:36:08   #
Alafoto Loc: Montgomery, AL
 
SAVH wrote:
I certainly remember the shot guns as well - but certainly not fondly. If you flinched during the shot, it could tear the flesh. I always opted for the normal syringe shots when it was an option.

Scotty


I still have scars on both arms. Souvenirs of Ft. Polk, LA, August 1963.

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Jan 25, 2021 11:39:01   #
fourlocks Loc: Londonderry, NH
 
John_F wrote:
Injection needles are much improved to the point (not a pun) where I don’t even feel the poke. Most of the feeling is the space displacement by the fluid going in. Back in my Navy days (early 50s) I would swear they used rattlesnake fangs.


Yeah and if you donate blood, it looks like they're forcing a quarter-inch water pipe halfway into your arm. The ultra-thin needle they use for vaccinations is so small in comparison, it's almost impossible to feel.

My question: How many of you watch the needle go in and how many look away? Just wondering.

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Jan 25, 2021 11:56:47   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
There is no lack of information regarding the COVID-19 virus. The difficulty is knowing which of it is correct and most importantly the old, "What does this mean to me?".

I've read that the vaccine will not STOP or PREVENT the virus however it will greatly reduce the effect of the flu should one contract it. If this is true then I liken it to wearing a life preserver in a boat should it sink when others go down the drain. Even people with the vaccine who contract the flu can still pass it along.

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Jan 25, 2021 12:14:43   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
Bill Emmett wrote:
Over the many years of technologic gains it seems we have lost a good bit of our edge. Trying to give millions of Americans a injection of the Covid Vaccine, one by one seems a bit antiquated. I remember standing in line with hundreds of sailors getting our vaccinations at the inductions station, when a corpsman placed gun type injector against my arm, and shot the vaccine in my arms. What has happened to this technology? That gun system injected not a 100, but a 1000 or so per hour. We were constantly prodded to move along faster, and not stall the line. With that equipment we could keep the line moving throughout the day, with no delay. Make the paperwork available in advance, and filled out before you arrive at the site. Those who need to fill out the papers, have a desk available, but the line goes on. Pop, Pop, goes the gun, 24-7 until all are vaccinated. I'm sure all Viet Nam Vets remember those guns.

Surfwooder
Over the many years of technologic gains it seems ... (show quote)


Good idea but the actual injection isn’t the constraint to flow of the system. There are tens of thousands of pharmacists and aides standing by...with nothing to inject.

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Jan 25, 2021 12:15:56   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
There is no lack of information regarding the COVID-19 virus. The difficulty is knowing which of it is correct and most importantly the old, "What does this mean to me?".

I've read that the vaccine will not STOP or PREVENT the virus however it will greatly reduce the effect of the flu should one contract it. If this is true then I liken it to wearing a life preserver in a boat should it sink when others go down the drain. Even people with the vaccine who contract the flu can still pass it along.
There is no lack of information regarding the COVI... (show quote)


What you read is false. The vaccines are 95% effective at “stopping” the virus; i.e. enabling your body to keep it from multiplying.

Covid is not flu.

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Jan 25, 2021 12:26:37   #
David Martin Loc: Cary, NC
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
There is no lack of information regarding the COVID-19 virus. The difficulty is knowing which of it is correct and most importantly the old, "What does this mean to me?".

I've read that the vaccine will not STOP or PREVENT the virus however it will greatly reduce the effect of the flu should one contract it. If this is true then I liken it to wearing a life preserver in a boat should it sink when others go down the drain. Even people with the vaccine who contract the flu can still pass it along.
There is no lack of information regarding the COVI... (show quote)

Surely you mean Covid-19 and not "the flu." The flu is caused by influenza virus. Covid is caused by severe acute respiratory sydrome coronavirus 2.

There is - as yet - no conclusive data to say whether or not a vaccinated person can become infected with Covid to the extent that the virus multiplies and the individual can then pass it along to others.

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Jan 25, 2021 12:59:12   #
Alafoto Loc: Montgomery, AL
 
Worth a try though, don't you think.

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Jan 25, 2021 13:16:29   #
skylinefirepest Loc: Southern Pines, N.C.
 
Absolutely...I can still show you where I got mine...and it hurt like hell as I recall.

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