Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Star of Bethlehem
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
Dec 20, 2020 11:55:03   #
ALN Loc: San Diego, CA
 
billnikon wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdQhoLGeoWY


Thanks for the link - Very detailed!

Reply
Dec 20, 2020 12:19:39   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Delderby wrote:
Was there such a conjunction when Jesus was born?


YES. Or, should I say, something very similar happened cause we know the 2 wise men followed it. Oh, the two wise men picked up a third wise man on the way. He was hitch hiking for a ride and no one would pick him up. Since he had Frankincense they figured it would make a good addition to what they already had.

Reply
Dec 20, 2020 12:44:54   #
drobvit Loc: Southern NV
 
Delderby wrote:
Was there such a conjunction when Jesus was born?


Like PhotoPhred said, a lot of debate and speculation. Some say that the Star of Bethlehem was a conjunction of Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus around the birth of Jesus.

Reply
 
 
Dec 20, 2020 15:59:54   #
PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA
 
Delderby wrote:
Was there such a conjunction when Jesus was born?


There are some who have researched this and showed supportive evidence that it may have occurred around the time of Christ's birth. Though the exact date of Christ's birth has never, to my knowledge, been determined, some of the supportive evidence of the conjunction of these two planets occurring near that time have indicated it may have been close in time to the vernal equinox, which is now December 21. Maybe even December 25. Truth may be stranger than fiction.

Reply
Dec 20, 2020 16:46:34   #
John O.
 
The wise men travelled from the east, visited King Herod and then went to Bethlehem. Their travel time, following the star, may have been a year or more.

Reply
Dec 20, 2020 17:23:28   #
KTJohnson Loc: Northern Michigan
 
Delderby wrote:
Was there such a conjunction when Jesus was born?


I don't know, I'm not an astronomer, but I am a Bible scholar.

So, what was the nature of the "star"?
- Some believe it was a genuine star
- Some say it was a conjunction of Jupiter & Saturn (Kepler's theory)
- Others say it was an erratic comet or meteor
- Still others say it was the star of destiny in the heart of mankind

Let's look at what the Bible says. The word "star" is translated from the Greek word *aster*, which means a shining or blazing forth, it can be used literally or figuratively. It could have but does NOT use the Greek word *astron*, which means a group of stars.

All the information we have about the Magi (the Kings or wise men) and the "star" is found in the book of Matthew, so lets go there. Matthew 2:2 has the wise men saying, "Where is He that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the east, and are come to worship Him." Notice it says, we have seen HIS star. There must have been something really different about this "star" for them to call it "His star".

Now go down to verse 9 where it says, "... and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was." The wise men follow this "star" across Jerusalem to where it finally stops in place above where Jesus was. Now, what kind of conjunction of planets, comet, meteors, or "destiny in the heart of mankind" could do that? None of those things explain this.

However, if you know anything about God in the Old or New Testaments, you may remember that anytime God shows up, it is in the form of "light". Over and over, when God radiated His presence, He transformed it into ineffable (overwhelming, awesome, sacred) light.

When leading Israel through the wilderness (Ex. 13:21), and when dwelling over the Tabernacle (Ex. 40:38) the glory of God appeared during the daytime as a cloud of light, and at night as a pillar of fire.

When Moses went up into the mountain and asked God to show him His glory, God hid him in a rock and God showed him His glory manifest as light. So intense that Moses' face shone when he came down the mountain.

The glory of God is blazing light! THAT's what the "star" was.

Reply
Dec 20, 2020 17:48:18   #
alberio Loc: Casa Grande AZ
 
KTJohnson wrote:
I don't know, I'm not an astronomer, but I am a Bible scholar.

So, what was the nature of the "star"?
- Some believe it was a genuine star
- Some say it was a conjunction of Jupiter & Saturn (Kepler's theory)
- Others say it was an erratic comet or meteor
- Still others say it was the star of destiny in the heart of mankind

Let's look at what the Bible says. The word "star" is translated from the Greek word *aster*, which means a shining or blazing forth, it can be used literally or figuratively. It could have but does NOT use the Greek word *astron*, which means a group of stars.

All the information we have about the Magi (the Kings or wise men) and the "star" is found in the book of Matthew, so lets go there. Matthew 2:2 has the wise men saying, "Where is He that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the east, and are come to worship Him." Notice it says, we have seen HIS star. There must have been something really different about this "star" for them to call it "His star".

Now go down to verse 9 where it says, "... and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was." The wise men follow this "star" across Jerusalem to where it finally stops in place above where Jesus was. Now, what kind of conjunction of planets, comet, meteors, or "destiny in the heart of mankind" could do that? None of those things explain this.

However, if you know anything about God in the Old or New Testaments, you may remember that anytime God shows up, it is in the form of "light". Over and over, when God radiated His presence, He transformed it into ineffable (overwhelming, awesome, sacred) light.

When leading Israel through the wilderness (Ex. 13:21), and when dwelling over the Tabernacle (Ex. 40:38) the glory of God appeared during the daytime as a cloud of light, and at night as a pillar of fire.

When Moses went up into the mountain and asked God to show him His glory, God hid him in a rock and God showed him His glory manifest as light. So intense that Moses' face shone when he came down the mountain.

The glory of God is blazing light! THAT's what the "star" was.
I don't know, I'm not an astronomer, but I am a Bi... (show quote)


I've never subscribed to the conjunction theory as they don't stay aligned for long periods. Also nova or supernova explanations don't work either. I believe in the miraculous event and could be why nobody can give a positive scientific answer.

Reply
 
 
Dec 20, 2020 17:57:31   #
Steved3604
 
Thank you, KT for a very nice, complete explanation. Touching.
Lots of very interesting commentary on this site --not all photographic.
I also liked the Rudolph story. Christmas is wonderful.

Reply
Dec 20, 2020 18:06:04   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
KTJohnson wrote:
I don't know, I'm not an astronomer, but I am a Bible scholar.

So, what was the nature of the "star"?
- Some believe it was a genuine star
- Some say it was a conjunction of Jupiter & Saturn (Kepler's theory)
- Others say it was an erratic comet or meteor
- Still others say it was the star of destiny in the heart of mankind

Let's look at what the Bible says. The word "star" is translated from the Greek word *aster*, which means a shining or blazing forth, it can be used literally or figuratively. It could have but does NOT use the Greek word *astron*, which means a group of stars.

All the information we have about the Magi (the Kings or wise men) and the "star" is found in the book of Matthew, so lets go there. Matthew 2:2 has the wise men saying, "Where is He that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the east, and are come to worship Him." Notice it says, we have seen HIS star. There must have been something really different about this "star" for them to call it "His star".

Now go down to verse 9 where it says, "... and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was." The wise men follow this "star" across Jerusalem to where it finally stops in place above where Jesus was. Now, what kind of conjunction of planets, comet, meteors, or "destiny in the heart of mankind" could do that? None of those things explain this.

However, if you know anything about God in the Old or New Testaments, you may remember that anytime God shows up, it is in the form of "light". Over and over, when God radiated His presence, He transformed it into ineffable (overwhelming, awesome, sacred) light.

When leading Israel through the wilderness (Ex. 13:21), and when dwelling over the Tabernacle (Ex. 40:38) the glory of God appeared during the daytime as a cloud of light, and at night as a pillar of fire.

When Moses went up into the mountain and asked God to show him His glory, God hid him in a rock and God showed him His glory manifest as light. So intense that Moses' face shone when he came down the mountain.

The glory of God is blazing light! THAT's what the "star" was.
I don't know, I'm not an astronomer, but I am a Bi... (show quote)


The Magi were from the East. Is it possible that Matthew's meaning was that the Magi saw the star while they were in the East, or that the translation meant that anyway? And that they followed the star from the East on it's journey across the heavens?

Reply
Dec 20, 2020 20:10:34   #
Richard Engelmann Loc: Boulder, Colorado
 
Here is the best I could do on the 15th: 300 mm, 1/60, ISO 12,800, heavily cropped. Saturn is on the right, and you may be able to see the moons of Jupiter in the download. On Monday I'll try the real telescope.


(Download)

Reply
Dec 20, 2020 20:40:31   #
htbrown Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
 
PhotoPhred wrote:
There has been lots of debate about this between astronomers an theologians. There apparently was something like this around that time, give or take a few years. Also we don't use the same calendar today. So, we will probably never know for sure. The star of Bethlehem was in the East, this one is in the Southwest sky. It should look pretty cool. Hoping for clear skies.


Great Conjunctions occur every 20 years. They don't appear in the same part of the sky each time. The last one, in 2000, was lost in the sun's glare. It is probable that some would appear in the eastern sky.

However, like every other star in the sky, the planets appear to wheel from east to west as the earth turns beneath them. Any star that appeared in the east would, later that night, appear directly overhead, and still later would appear in the west.

I suspect this comparison with the Star of Bethlehem is happening because this one is appearing near Christmas. The last one was in spring, IIRC, and the next one (in 2040) will not be in December.

Reply
 
 
Dec 20, 2020 20:50:59   #
TRSquared Loc: South Carolina
 
ALN wrote:
On Dec. 21, Jupiter and Saturn will cross paths in the night’s sky, and they will appear to shine together as one body.


You might be disappointed if you think there is going to be a bright object formed by this conjunction. (As for the Star of Bethlehem that is another matter all together.) The two planets might shine as only one body if you have imperfect vision. People with 20/20 vision can resolve items of equal brightness at an angular separation of 1 minute of arc. The two planets will have a separation of 6 minutes of arc at closest approach; however, they are of unequal brightness. Jupiter will shine 11 times brighter than Saturn and, since it will outshine Saturn by that much, all you are really going to see will be something that looks the way Jupiter always does, and, if you are lucky there will be a fainter "star" very close.

Now if you have a telescope, that view could be spectacular. The separation will be about one fifth the angular diameter of the full moon. Using a medium power eyepiece the telescope will show Saturn, Titan (one of its moons), Saturns rings, Jupiter with the cloud bands in its atmosphere as well as any of the four Galilean moons that are in view from your location. Happy viewing.

Reply
Dec 21, 2020 00:29:52   #
sharonmblais
 
billnikon wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdQhoLGeoWY


Thank you for posting this link!

Reply
Dec 21, 2020 06:13:18   #
Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal
 
Delderby wrote:
Was there such a conjunction when Jesus was born?


Accordong to old texts, they did't follow the star- it was bright enough that they followed the pointing shadow.

Reply
Dec 21, 2020 09:23:13   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
[quote=ALN]On Dec. 21, Jupiter and Saturn will cross paths in the night’s sky, and they will appear to shine together as one body. Thus appearing as the Star of Bethlehem - an event that hasn't happened in nearly eight centuries. If it actually happens, I definitely want to capture it.

Jupiter and Saturn approach each other about every 20 years, although not as close as this conjunction. The last time they were this close was 1623. Although early telescopes were available few if any people saw it because it was during the day time. The time before was in 1227 and at night so it was visible to the masses if in the right location.

I wanted to capture it too but unfortunately our sky has been clouded...not a star in sight. There will be more opportunities this week if the weather cooperates, otherwise there is always next time.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.