Thoughts Around Automated vs. Manual Functions (Page 5): The real value in P mode is the P Shift feature. For users who ignore that, you are absolutely right. Lumix’s M mode has a...

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Rongnongno wrote:

Nope. P mode uses settings that are different from manufacturer to manufacturer, camera type to... The results will not use the manual settings you would prefer.

Most cameras start with one then move to the other until the exposure is set.

Trouble is, if you want a specific dof, you will not get nor will you get the speed you prefer and forget about ISO.

Using aperture or speed mode still allows too much leeway for the camera AI.

The real value in P mode is the P Shift feature. For users who ignore that, you are absolutely right.

Lumix’s M mode has a button that momentarily engages P and resets your exposure to whatever P would have chosen, and it’s ALWAYS the wrong pair.

If you could dial in some shift while pushing that button then it would be a reeeeeally useful thing, but no go :-(

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My own fondness for P mode stems from enabling Toggle on AE Lock. Used that way, P mode is like M-mode but with the added feature of an EV coupling cuz even when the exposure is locked the shift still works. The EC also still works during lock so you can +/- trim the brightness.

Steve Whitcomb

A number of people have put it very well. Although I do not subscribe to the myth that “Real photographers only shoot manual”, there is something more satisfying about turning off the auto functions and doing things the old fashioned way. I find that using manual functions makes me slow down and think about the shot. Too much automatic turns me into a snapshooter instead of a photographer.

Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.

Steve Whitcomb wrote:

A number of people have put it very well. Although I do not subscribe to the myth that “Real photographers only shoot manual”, there is something more satisfying about turning off the auto functions and doing things the old fashioned way. I find that using manual functions makes me slow down and think about the shot. Too much automatic turns me into a snapshooter instead of a photographer.

Exactly

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

larryepage wrote:

...something resembling an intelligent discussion...

Good luck with that!

I use Auto occasionally, but I prefer aperture priority. Autofocus works very well, so I generally rely on that - single, center focus point and BBF.

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Steve Whitcomb wrote:

A number of people have put it very well. Although I do not subscribe to the myth that “Real photographers only shoot manual”, there is something more satisfying about turning off the auto functions and doing things the old fashioned way. I find that using manual functions makes me slow down and think about the shot. Too much automatic turns me into a snapshooter instead of a photographer.

Good for you ! Not needing to feel old fashioned or to slow down myself, I find manual exposure speeds things up. I can ignore the device cuz I know it’s not messing with stuff behind my back.

Auto exposure demands that I pay attention to those little numbers at the edge of the VF to make sure the camera isn’t doing something stupid such as reacting to the sky. Manual exposure let’s me concentrate on focus and framing with no need to “baby sit” the exposure.

pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY

larryepage wrote:

Before proceeding, I want to declare openly that I am about to ask a question which some may interpret as unnecessarily raising controversy or attempting to troll the group or provoke some of its members. Please be assured that is absolutely not my intent, and it is my hope that we can have something resembling an intelligent discussion around the topic. There are some specific elements involved, and I don't want to shy away from those. But please do not interpret them as provocation.

The thoughts behind this discussion arose as I was getting ready to do the latest firmware update for my D850. It was released in April, but I somehow missed it until yesterday. It apparently provides for improved operation with certain lenses. And no...it does not add the "Eye Focus" capability that many have been anxiously awaiting.

So the question is this...and I haven't been able to find a delicate way to ask it...for those who treasure "Manual" photography, exactly what are the boundaries of thta method of operation? And for the purposes of this discussion, let's please set aside the question of whether "Auto ISO" is or is not part of "manual exposure." It's been discussed thoroughly elsewhere without resolution. I'm passionate around my position on that subject and realize that others are equally passionate around their own, different, position.

BUT...it seems that many (and I mean many everywhere, not just here) who would never consider following anything other than manual exposure management would also never consider anything other than automatic camera focus. And preferably automatic camera focus that can identify, lock in on, and focus on the eye of their subject, whether human or animal. Why is the manual choice preferred in the one case, but the automatic choice is lusted after in the other case?

Now just for full disclosure here. I proudly use autofocus essentially all the time, except for night sky photography and a few other cases where autofocus falls short. I was initially quite concerned when some of my newest cameras no longer had an autofocus assist light. (Trust me...I learned that it's OK.) Because of some vision problems relating either from glaucoma or occupational exposure to intense light (my doctor and I don't agree on which), I shamelessly depend on autofocus. And yes, I use Program exposure mode a lot of the time also. It's just too good and too convenient if I select the correct metering pattern, and I am pretty shameless about that also.

Why do we think there is such a disparity in the acceptance of automatic exposure vs. autofocus, especially since various forms of automatic exposure have been around longer than autofocus? I am really interested in the responses here, especially if we can keep the discussion civil and thoughtful.

Before proceeding, I want to declare openly that I... (show quote)

Thoughtfully asked question, if only all questions had such poise.

I simply use all the selections the camera supplies depending on the specific situation. A general statement, I will use either of the priority settings before using manual in most light about 80% of the time. Cameras do a excellent job with both and found I could spend more time focusing(mental) on composition than chimping and tweaking dials. When I do go manual I do use Auto ISO. :) I'm typically shooting sports events so I set Ap and Shut and auto ISO. When dozens to hundreds of people are constantly in my viewfinder with changing light and movement, there is zero time to play with ISO or any dial/button other than shutter. :)

Great question well asked.

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

rehess wrote:

No, I have it on my MILC, but focus peaking works for me. Most of my photos are taken hand-held at f/5.6 or f/8, so in most cases enlarging does little for me.

And in what way does that make a difference?

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jerryc41 wrote:

Good luck with that!

I use Auto occasionally, but I prefer aperture priority......

Sounds like a textbook case of “a difference without a distinction”.

cedymock Loc: Irmo, South Carolina

The bottom line to this is the camera cannot know what you are trying to achieve without you telling it. The controls on the camera are to help you achieve the photograph you see in your mind whichever mode whatever controls. The person shooting wildlife vs landscapes vs sports, the camera has no way of knowing the wildlife has a 95% chance it’s going to move and you need a faster shutter speed unless you tell it by using the controls. How could the camera know in one macro shot you only want DOF for the main subject vs DOF for the entire macro scene in another photograph. We are all in different places shooting different things, use the controls you need to achieve your goal there is no one thing that works, if there was the camera would not need you or your artistic prospective.

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

CHG_CANON wrote:

When was the last time it wasn't referenced as the "Professional" mode?

August 5th at 3:38 PM

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

User ID wrote:

Sounds like a textbook case of “a difference without a distinction”.

Yes, they are identical, since both begin with the letter "A."

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jerryc41 wrote:

Yes, they are identical, since both begin with the letter "A."

There’s a much larger truth in that than what first meets the eye. A is A is A is A is ...... A. No doubt.

Canisdirus

You have choices today like never before.
It all depends on what you are shooting...and how much time you have to get the image.
You can set up manual in a way to take care of a few settings that won't change (as long as the light doesn't change).
But there are times where P, A and S are just better.
I'll macro in M or A.
Wildlife...A or S.
Street... M or S.

Cubanphoto

quixdraw wrote:

Think Sinatra "My Way" for each of us, whatever way that gets satisfying results.

Right on!

olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida

larryepage wrote:

Before proceeding, I want to declare openly that I am about to ask a question which some may interpret as unnecessarily raising controversy or attempting to troll the group or provoke some of its members. Please be assured that is absolutely not my intent, and it is my hope that we can have something resembling an intelligent discussion around the topic. There are some specific elements involved, and I don't want to shy away from those. But please do not interpret them as provocation.

The thoughts behind this discussion arose as I was getting ready to do the latest firmware update for my D850. It was released in April, but I somehow missed it until yesterday. It apparently provides for improved operation with certain lenses. And no...it does not add the "Eye Focus" capability that many have been anxiously awaiting.

So the question is this...and I haven't been able to find a delicate way to ask it...for those who treasure "Manual" photography, exactly what are the boundaries of thta method of operation? And for the purposes of this discussion, let's please set aside the question of whether "Auto ISO" is or is not part of "manual exposure." It's been discussed thoroughly elsewhere without resolution. I'm passionate around my position on that subject and realize that others are equally passionate around their own, different, position.

BUT...it seems that many (and I mean many everywhere, not just here) who would never consider following anything other than manual exposure management would also never consider anything other than automatic camera focus. And preferably automatic camera focus that can identify, lock in on, and focus on the eye of their subject, whether human or animal. Why is the manual choice preferred in the one case, but the automatic choice is lusted after in the other case?

Now just for full disclosure here. I proudly use autofocus essentially all the time, except for night sky photography and a few other cases where autofocus falls short. I was initially quite concerned when some of my newest cameras no longer had an autofocus assist light. (Trust me...I learned that it's OK.) Because of some vision problems relating either from glaucoma or occupational exposure to intense light (my doctor and I don't agree on which), I shamelessly depend on autofocus. And yes, I use Program exposure mode a lot of the time also. It's just too good and too convenient if I select the correct metering pattern, and I am pretty shameless about that also.

Why do we think there is such a disparity in the acceptance of automatic exposure vs. autofocus, especially since various forms of automatic exposure have been around longer than autofocus? I am really interested in the responses here, especially if we can keep the discussion civil and thoughtful.

Before proceeding, I want to declare openly that I... (show quote)

I feel it is a mixture of what I'm trying to accomplish, which gear I have at the time, mood I'm in, mode of operation...... I use it all. When shooting "pure manual", everything is manual, including focus....but often use a mix of everything in the arsenal..... and once in a while, even full auto......